In this episode of the Marketing Automation Moment podcast, Hannah and Mike discuss exciting developments in the marketing automation space, including ActiveCampaign’s partnership with Wix, and HubSpot’s acquisition of Dashworks, an AI company that enhances internal document search capabilities. The conversation further explores HubSpot’s commitment to user training, emphasising the importance of structured training sessions for different skill levels to improve user engagement and retention.
To dive deeper into the topic of AI integration in marketing, be sure to check out our recent webinar, “How to Integrate AI Into Your Marketing Campaigns Today.” https://napier-partnership-limited.webinargeek.com/how-to-integrate-ai-into-your-marketing-campaigns-today
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About Napier
Napier is a PR-lead, full service marketing agency that specialises in the B2B technology sector. We work closely with our clients to build campaigns, focusing on achieving results that have a significant positive impact on their businesses and which, above all, ensure maximum return on their investment.
About Mike Maynard
Mike is the Managing Director/CEO of Napier, a PR and marketing agency for B2B technology companies. A self-confessed geek who loves talking about technology, he believes that combining the measurement, accountability and innovation that he learnt as an engineer with a passion for communicating ensures Napier delivers great campaigns and tangible return on investment.
About Hannah Wehrly
Hannah is the Head of Business Development and Marketing at Napier and leads on pitching, proposal writing, lead nurturing, email marketing, social media and content creation. Hannah joined the Napier team back in 2017 as a Marketing Specialist after completing her degree in Marketing and Communications, and her role focuses on developing new relationships with potential clients.
Time Stamps
00:00:00 – Introduction to The Marketing Automation Moment Podcast
00:00:54 – ActiveCampaign and Wix Partnership
00:02:57 – HubSpot Acquires Dashworks
00:04:49 – The Need for AI in Marketing Automation
00:07:13 – Importance of Ongoing Training in Marketing Platforms
00:10:06 – HubSpot’s Inbound Conference
00:11:44 – Spring Cleaning Your Marketing Automation Platform
00:15:00 – Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Follow Mike and Hannah:
Mike Maynard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemaynard/
Hannah Wehrly on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hannah-wehrly-b0706a107/
Napier website: https://www.napierb2b.com/
Napier LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/napier-partnership-limited/
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Want more? Check out Napier’s other podcast – Marketing B2B Technology: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/marketing-b2b-technology/id1485417724
Transcript: Navigating the Evolving Landscape of Marketing Automation Tools
Speakers: Mike Maynard, Hannah Wehrly
Hannah: Welcome to the Market Automation Moment podcast. I’m Hannah Kelly.
Mike: And I’m Mike Maynard. This is Napier’s podcast to tell you about the latest news from the world of marketing automation.
Hannah: Welcome to the Market Automation Moment podcast. I’m Hannah Whirly.
Mike: And I’m Mike Maynard.
Hannah: Today we talk about the partnership between ActiveCampaign and Wix.
Mike: We discuss HubSpot’s acquisition of AI company Dashworks.
Hannah: HubSpot’s training.
Mike: And Hannah gets really excited about spring cleaning her marketing automation platform.
Hannah: Well, hi, Mike. Welcome back to another episode of Marketing Automation Moment. I’m really pleased to get you because I think you’re a bit of a jet setter.
Mike: Hi, Hannah. Great to talk to you again. Yeah, it’s been quite busy with a lot of travel. I’m actually off to Germany next week as well. So it’s great to have a chance to sit down and talk about marketing automation.
Hannah: Definitely. Well, look, let’s kick off. We’ve got a lot to cover today and I have to just forewarn you, we are talking about HubSpot a lot, so my inner fan might little bit. But let’s kick off talking about someone else and this is ActiveCampaign. Now, I was really pleased because I was looking around, you know, what’s going on in the landscape. And actually, ActiveCampaign have just announced a partnership with a company called Wix. Now, Wix is a web page creator, and the idea is that Wix will be able to integrate with ActiveCampaign to make website creation easier whilst using a model. I mean, before we go into the actual details of what it means for the platform itself, I just have to say congrats to anyone who’s doing their PR because they were everywhere. I mean, I saw a lot of coverage of this. So even to just be out in the news that much done.
Mike: Yeah, I think it was great. I mean, it’s interesting because it really cements that active campaign positioning as being a tool designed for very small companies. I mean, Wix, I’ve used it with, you know, things like sports clubs and very little organizations tend to use Wix. It’s one of the simplest web page creators. So I think ActiveCampaign has actually done something pretty smart here because people who frankly can’t even build a website with conventional tools, they want something a bit simpler like Wix. They’ve now got access to marketing automation. So it could be an interesting opportunity to own that small end of the market.
Hannah: Oh, definitely. And I have to say as well, it is nice to have something in the news that isn’t to do with AI. Now, AI is great, but it’s really great to actually just see another platform, another together to create really something
Mike: It’s also quite nice to see that two companies are working together and collaborating. I mean, it seems that so much that we talk about in Marketing Automation Moment is all about, you know, large companies acquiring small companies to get little bits of technology. And sometimes that’s great. Sometimes actually the customers of those smaller companies can lose out. I think by doing a partnership, you’ve got the best of all worlds there. So I really like the fact that it’s a partnership deal rather than an acquisition.
Hannah: Oh, that’s a fantastic point, Mike. But let’s move on because I want to talk about someone a little bit bigger. Now, as I mentioned, it’s a bit HubSpot focus this podcast episode, but I think it’s really worthwhile. And the first thing I really wanted to kick off was talk about the news of HubSpot actually acquiring Dashworks. Now, Dashworks is basically an AI agent that allows you to search your internal documents. Now, this is really cool. I think it provides a really easy AI integration to support marketers. But I wanted to hear what you thought about it because I know you actually did a webinar yesterday about how to integrate AI into marketing campaigns. So what do you actually think about a tool like this?
Mike: Well, I think it’s interesting. I mean, HubSpot, they’ve got their AI tools already integrated into HubSpot. They’ve probably been arguably, if not one of perhaps, you know, even the most advanced in terms of integrating AI. And yet they’re still having to acquire companies to fill out their AI offerings. So to me, what it says is that we’re a long way away from getting the AI functionality that marketers need and want. into our marketing automation platforms. And that’s really interesting because people using HubSpot obviously have some AI features, as for example, does Salesforce, your friend Einstein. But I think if you look at some of the other market automation platforms, they’re a long way behind. If HubSpot haven’t made it, there’s a real need to add more AI into marketing automation. And that’s really what the webinar was all about, was how you can do it now, rather than waiting for the tools vendors to catch up.
Hannah: I think that’s a great point, Mike. And I think, again, it goes back to something that you said a little bit earlier when we were talking about ActiveCampaign, that even these big companies are having to buy the small companies in order to get the functionality they need to be able to keep up with the evolving landscape.
Mike: Yeah, and I think it’s interesting that the vendors, they want to control things. They want to own everything, which is why HubSpot’s Bulk Dash works. But actually, if you look at it, you don’t necessarily need to do that. It’s the modern world today. Everything’s cloud-based. Everything has an API. And I won’t go too technical for the listeners here, but basically, all the systems that you need have the ability to connect together. And that’s what we talked about in the webinar, showing people how you can take what you might call a dumb marketing automation platform that’s got no AI. And actually, with simple integration that really doesn’t take more than a few minutes to do, you can actually then get AI generated emails within that system. So to me, I think the promise of AI is really exciting. And it’s going to be really interesting to see how many people take advantage of it or whether marketers are going to sit back and wait for the tools to catch up. Because if you do, you know, you could be left behind, your competitors could be actually much more proactive because clearly we’re not there yet.
Hannah: I totally agree. And I think I actually just want to reference one example, Mike, and I believe I’m right in saying this, but I mean, one of the easiest integrations that we have is through our marketing automation platform, Sharpspring, through to a contact research tool called Apollo. Now we’ve used Zapier to connect those and it’s all automated and make sure that the platform’s updated. But if we were just waiting for Sharpspring to do updates, have that upgrade, allow us to do that, we would be doing not a great job right now in our marketing for Napier itself.
Mike: Yeah, absolutely and it’s a really interesting point because we’ve now got the ability you can enter an email and all the contact details are filled out. It’s also really important if you want to use AI that you give the AI as much information about the contact as you possibly can and so this content enrichment It’s a key part of using AI. Get as much data about the contact, because that will then let you create better and more complete emails. Or if it’s not emails, maybe it’s just a sentence or some customization information, or perhaps a different landing page. But all of that’s really important. So I think marketers now particularly with the importance of AI, probably do need to think about doing some of this integration and using a couple of tools together, rather than relying on a single tool to do everything. Because frankly, those single integrated tools, they’ve got some catching up to do.
Hannah: Absolutely. And I can’t resist, Mike, so I’m just going to do a little plug for our webinar. We’ll make sure that the link to the on-demand version is in the show notes. And so listeners, if you’re there, please watch it. Let us know what you think. And if you have any questions, please do reach out because it was a very interesting webinar, although I’m a little bit biased. Let’s move on, Mike. Actually, something that HubSpot is doing really well, and we’ve always thought this about HubSpot, I was browsing their webinars, looking at what they’re talking about, and they had some really good sessions on training. And what I really loved there was beginner training as well as intermediate training. So it was all sorts of different levels. Now, I do think it varies, but HubSpot’s great at this, other platforms not so much. Do you think market automation platforms do provide enough training to their users?
Mike: Oh, that’s a great question. Probably applies to all marketing technology platforms. So, I mean, obviously, there’s been a lot of documentation about HubSpot, how they realized that actually the big problem was, was people were signing up to HubSpot and then leaving after the first year because they weren’t using the tool. And HubSpot worked out not only that actually getting people to use the tool was going to increase the stickiness, increase customer retention, but actually they could charge for some of that. And so they started charging for onboarding. Now, I think what we see in the market today is that there’s a lot of companies offering onboarding, but very few at the level or with the quality of HubSpot. And to me, it’s not so much about charging for onboarding. It’s much more about the quality of the training that makes you use the tools. I mean, what do you think, Hannah?
Hannah: I mean, I do agree. And to me as well, I think there’s a very big difference between the onboarding period and then needing ongoing training. So onboarding is about, you know, getting things up to speed. This is how you can do the simple automations, emails, you know, whatever it may be. But then often companies are still left to just then figure it out by themselves. Because one of the things, you know, we’ve talked about in the past is that you have to continuously optimize. And, you know, we’re talking a bit more about that in our insightful tip of the week in a minute, but often multi-automation platforms just go, okay, cool. You’re on boarded, have a great time. And yet actually you don’t still get that ongoing training, that ongoing help. And that’s actually where it’s really needed because you don’t just set something up and leave it like that forever. And if you are doing that, then you’re doing it wrong.
Mike: Absolutely. And one of the things we were talking about before we started recording is the way HubSpot’s approached some of this new training is actually by giving it levels. So you get beginner, intermediate, advanced. And I think that’s a great idea because they’ve recognized that it’s not just the onboarding, it’s not just being able to send your first email, it’s about being able to do more and more as you learn more about the platform. you know you were absolutely right when you talked about that I think it’s a really great point they’ve understood why they’re doing the training and I think that’s going to definitely help HubSpot and make it much more sticky.
Hannah: Definitely. And I mean, the other thing that HubSpot does do, and this is huge, so this won’t surprise any of our listeners, and that is the inbound conference. I want to just have a really quick chat about this because it’s hosted in September like it is every year. But normally up to this point, it’s actually been hosted in Boston where they’re headquartered. And what’s really interesting is it’s actually being hosted in San Francisco this year. And I believe, Mike, you know a little bit about the kind of expedition conference hall that it’s being hosted in.
Mike: Yeah, it’s really interesting. And you’ve got to wonder why they’re doing it. So for listeners that don’t know, HubSpot was founded in Boston, which is why the Inbound Conference was held in Boston. And obviously, for us Europeans, we’re both based in Europe. So actually, it really helps to have a conference on the East Coast rather than the West Coast of America. But what HubSpot’s done is they’ve moved it to San Francisco. And I can see lots of reasons why they do that. You know, one might just be size of venue, but it could also be around positioning the company. Although you do wonder because, you know, perhaps the most famous conference in San Francisco is Dreamforce. And you just wonder whether maybe HubSpot has got a little bit of Salesforce envy. I don’t know. What do you think, Hannah?
Hannah: Oh, I like that a bit of jealousy. Yes. I think it’ll be interesting. And I think as we get closer to it, and then seeing how people react will be really interesting. I don’t think they’ve come out and said any specific reasons yet. But maybe that will come clear as the conference actually takes place.
Mike: Yeah. And actually, I mean, I’ve been to quite a few inbounds. I’m not yet signed up for this one. I’m still on the fence. So we’ll have to see what happens.
Hannah: Definitely. Well, let’s move on to our insightful tip of the week. Now, this is a really interesting one, and I want to have a chat about spring cleaning your marketing automation platform. Now, I think companies get things running, they could have the most brilliant, efficient marketing automation platform in the world, and yet they still leave contacts in the database that will never be useful. And what I mean is that they will maybe approach some target companies that have these contacts in their database for years and years and years, but actually those people could not even work there anymore. And it can be a bit of an ego thing, but I think personally for me, I love a spring clean and I would rather have a smaller list that I know is really high quality, that I know I’m targeting the right people, than thousands and thousands and thousands which aren’t actually making any difference or generating any results. I don’t know what you think, Mike.
Mike: Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, I think to some extent there’s a lot of this just in case, let’s keep everything just in case. And it results in, you know, you and I have seen this, there are companies out there with more contact records that are hard bounces. People who’ve left the company, you can’t contact them, you can’t access them, they’ve gone. more of them than actually active contacts. And also you’re paying potentially for some of those contacts. So from my point of view, I think it’s a bit of an ego thing. I think people are a bit scared to let go of contact data. But of course, one of the things, and we haven’t talked about this for a while, but GDPR is quite important. You should legally actually spring clean your database. So it’s not only the fact that You know, spring cleaning is a good policy. It’s a good thing to do. And obviously you like it, Hannah, so therefore it’s very important. But also it’s actually a legal requirement in some cases. And I think people forget that.
Hannah: Oh, definitely, Mike. I think that’s a really valuable point to make. And I think I’d add to it as well as people don’t spring clean and then they wonder why the results of their campaigns are so bad. So, you know, these emails are going to these people and it’s like, God, I’ve got such high bounce rates, you know, nobody’s opening. And it’s, well, are you actually sending to people, as you mentioned, who said exist in these companies, or is it just going to emails that generally don’t exist anymore?
Mike: Yeah, and I think that’s a really difficult thing. I mean, you and I know that we’ve had people who’ve been, for example, receiving our newsletter for years that don’t seem to be engaged, and then will come to us and actually become a prospect. So, spring cleaning, it’s a really important thing to do, but it’s very difficult. To me, if you’ve got people there that are hard bounces, they should go. They’re not going to help, really. I don’t see anyone reporting on the number of clicks from hard bounces, because pretty much the number’s always zero. So I think those should go. But there is a question about how you deal with contacts that may or may not be active. And particularly, you know, when you’re sending things that are like newsletter update content, a lot of people can sit there and lurk. And so I think you’ve got to make sensible decisions. It’s not a case of cleaning out everybody who’s not clicked on an email in the last you know, quarter or six months. I’ve seen companies with very draconian approaches to removing contacts, even if they’ve not engaged for a short time. And that could be a particular problem, for example, if someone goes on maternity leave, particularly in Europe, where you can have long maternity leaves, that contact’s still active, it’s still relevant. But when they come back, they’ve been removed from your database because they’ve not engaged whilst they’ve been away. So I think it’s something that needs a bit of thought. But definitely, you know, now’s the time for a good spring clean. So take a look at your marketing automation platform and remove the data that really isn’t helping you.
Hannah: I think that is brilliant advice to leave the podcast today, Mike. So thanks so much for your time and for such a great conversation.
Mike: Well, thanks, Hannah. Great topics as always. Really enjoy chatting to you again.
Hannah: Thanks for listening to the Marketing Automation Moment podcast.
Mike: Don’t forget to subscribe in your favourite podcast application and we’ll see you next time.
