Asaf Darash, CEO of Regpack, and Kirsty Dawe, CEO of B2B website personalisation software Webeo, join Mike to discuss their collaborative project and how Webeo’s software enables Regpack to increase website conversion rates and enhance the customer experience.

A great success story, the project demonstrates the impact personalisation can have on lead quality and Asaf and Kirsty share their advice on undertaking similar projects.

Listen to the podcast now via the links below:

About Regpack

Regpack is an online registration, payment, and user management system that enables organisations to register applicants quickly and effectively.

About Webeo

Webeo is a software tool enabling B2B businesses to increase website conversions through personalisation.

About Asaf Darash:

Asaf Darash is the founder and CEO of Regpack. With extensive experience as an entrepreneur and investor, he has built three successful companies to date. He specialises in product development for the web, team building, and bringing a company from a concept to profitability. His specialties include extreme programming, programming languages, JavaScript, MongoDB, system structures and new media, enabling him to build versatile products based on achievable business models. He holds a PhD in New Media from Hebrew University of Jerusalem and has served as a visiting scholar at the University of California, Berkeley.

About Kirsty Dawe:

Kirsty Dawe is the CEO of Webeo, B2B website personalisation software that delivers a proven solution to the website conversion problem in B2B. Webeo’s software helps B2B organisations increase website leads by delivering a highly relevant, personalised experience to the B2B buyer as soon as they hit the website and tailoring that journey as they move through the funnel. Before Webeo, Kirsty held the role of Managing Director of award-winning agency Really B2B for 15 years. She has extensive knowledge and skills in B2B marketing, website customization, business growth, technology innovation, and full marketing mix in various sectors.

Time Stamps

[00:50.02] – Kirsty and Asaf share their respective career journeys.

[05:53.02] – Asaf explains why Regpack needed to work with Webeo to overcome challenges.

[11:24.09] – Kirsty explains how the Webeo platform can personalise website content.

[19:35.05] – Asaf discusses the time and cost investment involved in the project.

[21:14.00] – Kirsty shares the way businesses can ensure personalisation whilst sticking to legislation.

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Regpack website:

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Follow Kirsty:

Kirsty Dawe on LinkedIn:

Webeo website:

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Transcript: Interview with Asaf Darash – Regpack and Kirsty Dawe – Webeo

Speakers: Mike Maynard, Asaf Darash, Kirsty Dawe

Mike: Thanks for listening to marketing B2B Tech, the podcast from Napier, where you can find out what really works in B2B marketing today. Welcome to Marketing B2B Technology, the podcast from Napier. Today I have two guests, I’m joined by Asaf Darash, who’s the founder and CEO of Regpack, and Kirsty Dawe, who’s the CEO of Webeo. Welcome to the podcast, both of you.

Kirsty: Thank you for having me.

Mike: Great. Well, it’s great to have you both on and we’re obviously going to talk a little bit about a project you’ve done together. But before, I mean, maybe I can just ask you to give us a little bit of background about your career journey, and also introduce your company and what it does. So Kirsty and then if you want to go first?

Kirsty: Yeah, sure. So I am currently CEO at Webeo, who we are going to talk about today, alongside SF, we are B2B website personalization solution, working with customers purely in the B2B space to help drive their conversion rate optimization, free website personalization. I am now vendor side and feel very passionate about what we do. Because as a B2B marketer, who’s been client side and agency side, I understand the pain of driving really great quality traffic to your website, and then not getting you know, much more than a few percent of that traffic actually convert into valuable opportunities and ultimately revenue. So that’s why Webeo was born. And I think the reason I feel so passionate about it is because prior to web, eBay was agency side, so I built up ran B2B marketing agency, really B2B, we worked with a range of different clients, everyone from software to professional services to digital transformation, and we won some awards, we were very, we are very, I would say they are very demand gen focused, so results driven, which fits perfectly with the offering that that we have in having Webeo. And it just seemed like an ideal transition for me, you know, looking to move out of the agency space to go into a business where I could really see the value of the product, and also how that would bring revenue into the clients that that we worked with. So that’s a bit about me,

Mike: I love that you’ve moved into a company that solved a real problem that you had in your previous role. That’s, that’s brilliant. And so can you tell us a little bit about Regpack and how you ended up founding and running the company?

Asaf: Sure. So Regpack is basically an onboarding tool for businesses, mainly service based businesses, the best way to think about Regpack is Shopify for services. That’s the easiest way of sort of like a calculate exactly what we do. Services have unique needs that normal ecommerce does not have, mainly the problem of space and time. And the way that that they can give their offering only in specific situations, they have caught a problem, they don’t have shipping problems. It’s very, very different. And it’s really missing in the market right now that services have a dedicated platform for them. My my personal background is somewhat different. I started with an academic career, I was a Fulbright Scholar, I did my PhD at Berkeley, and then later, my postdoc was in Berkeley and Stanford, I mainly was interested in computer languages and how they affect human action. as nerdy as can get. And while I was doing my, my first and second degree, I also built technology companies that would mainly like code that I sold one to Excel or company and the other two to venture capital eventually, like totally sold, I didn’t want to do anything with it. And then what happened is, I, I started building a prototype during my my PhD, to see if you can build something that has no constants in it. Only variable, I built a prototype I saw I showed that it’s possible. And I was like, Okay, great. You know, a lot of times you build something in the academia, and they’re like, Yeah, that’s fine. We’re done. And then I remember, my, my professor at MIT is like, you know, okay, so who needs this? And like, I don’t care. And he’s like, No, but who needs this? And he’s like, go check if someone needs it. And that sparked a real interest in me to find a real use case that would use that. And I noticed that services have unique business processes that are different from each other. What’s very different from a service based business and, and like a just an E commerce or just someone selling stuff is that they have an onboarding process. Think of it like your lawyer, your doctor, anything that giving you a service, they have an onboarding process. And the onboarding process is always unique. Because every business is a bit different. And this fit exactly to what I built. Because it’s like, you need to be able to create something that is, is like, it’s like it more. It’s like Lego, right? Like you can put things together. And I was like, Okay, let’s build a company out of this and enrich pack is the baby.

Mike: Right? I mean, I love that I love that you came up with this concept, and then then look for the market and found found that market that needed the product. Obviously, the reason we’ve got you both on the podcast is to talk about how you two have worked together. So So can you tell me, you know, you have this business, you know, helping service companies on board? What was the problem you had? And then why did you go to where the Oh,

Asaf: so the biggest problem that we had, and we still haven’t much back is our biggest strength. Okay, we can cater at the same time to a SaaS company, to a camp to a conference, to a lawyer’s office into a doctor’s office at the same ease. Now, if you walk into a restaurant, and you see that they serve sushi, and steak and pasta, you’ll say like, this sucks, right? This is restaurant, the food is truly terrible, right? And you walk out. And that was exactly our problem, like people would see that. And they would be like, there’s no way you can do all this, there’s no way that you can do this in a good way. And the thing is, like, because the technology is so unique, and how it enables it, it’s very hard for people that are even for people that are technical to believe that this is possible. And that was the problem where we would talk to a client, and they would be very, like, they wouldn’t believe that this is possible. Now, on the other hand, this is exactly our strength. Because no business does one thing, they always do multiple things. Think of a school, a school has the actual school, they have the after school, they normally have a camp, they normally have a bunch of events and constantly, right, and there’s just like a normal school right? Now, that means that a school is using between four to five different software’s just to run basic functions, which is terrible, right? So on one hand, when the client understands that we can do all these things for them, and they start doing the various things, they become a client for life, because from their perspective, replacing reg PAC is replacing it with five software’s which no one’s going to do, right. But actually getting them to start was close to impossible. Because they didn’t believe that you can do all these things. And they would just like, you know, zone out right in the beginning or never convert. When when we found Webeo. I felt like, you know, well, I found the solution at last, because we can detect what they’re initially interested in, like, why they came in, okay, think of it like, I don’t know, the restaurant analogy, again. The person wants to eat sushi, should you’re just giving them a menu only of what you serve for sushi. And they’re like, Okay, great. This is the sushi restaurant, this is what I want to eat. And then they’re like, Okay, I’m willing to listen to you guys. I’m willing to see the demo. And we even took it a step further in the initial communications with the client. We never told them that we can do other things. But they came in only for a conference. We’re like, Yeah, we’re just conferences. Oh, that’s the only thing we do only conferences. And then only when they actually become a client, that the project manager that works with them the first time they’re like, Okay, these are all your options. What do you want to build? And they’re like, what, you can build all these different things? And like, Yeah, whatever you want. And they’re like, wait a second, so I can do the conference. And the HR together was like, Yeah, let’s start with your conference. And that’s the aha moment for people. So whether you’re really solved a major marketing problem that we had, which, on the one hand, it was important to hide it like to hide disability, but eventually, it’s our strength. So it was sort of like the creative, exact dance that we needed.

Kirsty: That was one of the most bold approaches that rage pack took, because so many B2B marketers, organisations wouldn’t take that chance, they would still say, but we still haven’t say all this other stuff, because shareholders and, you know, the sales team, and, you know, the fact that obviously, I serve as a CEO and founder he could he could make that decision, but it was pretty bold, and it really, really paid off, you know, restricting the experience to just what that that buyer was interested in, and then getting them into the organisation. So yeah, really powerful.

Mike: Yeah, I mean, I think that’s a great idea. It’s very much almost, rather than looking for an ideal customer, you find out what the customer wants, and then you create their ideal product. I think that’s a really neat approach. Was that what you were thinking SF.

Asaf: I wouldn’t say that. We were creating their ideal product, but we were presenting the product as ideal for them. The product is the exact same product all the time. It’s just, it’s just that we present it as how I say, it’s very similar to the computer, okay, like the computer can do a lot of things, right? It can compute, it can create a can be a communication machine, it can be a number crunch. It does, like in academia computer is called the all purpose machine, right? Now, if you try to present to, to normal people that the computer is All Purpose Machine will be like what he’s talking about, I use it in order to call my friends and send like, you know, emojis. That’s what it is for. Right? So it’s about speaking the language in a way. Which, by the way, one of the things that we do in the software as well, is like, if you have a camp, we change all the verbiage to campers. And, and let’s say families. Okay, and if you’re doing a conference for for a company, we change the verbiage to employees and companies and and that lowers people’s anxiety, just right away.

Mike: I love that. I mean, I think one of the things people are going to wonder is he mentioned this asset that you are able to work out what people are interested in when they come on your website. So I mean, kirsta, you’re providing the technology that does that? How do you do that? I mean, that’s fascinating. Yeah,

Kirsty: I mean, obviously, there are a number of different ways to do that. And the most used way for the wider web to customer base is IP data. So we can identify based on a business’s IP address, as soon as they hit the website, the industry, that they’re in the vertical that they sit in, and then serve that personalised experience across the whole site from the minute that they hit the website. And SF and the the team use that for some of their major sectors, particularly education. But what red pack does that was really smart, is they layered on behavioural personalization. Alongside that, because some of the sectors that red pack focus on are particularly niche. And when you mentioned camps, there’s not something that’s very easy to identify based on a zip code or a nice code. And obviously, we can integrate with HubSpot, we can pull in the data that’s already in the client CRM. But using behavioural personalization, where visitor goes on to the website and hits those key product pages, so identifies themselves, right, okay, I am in the camera vertical, or I am in education, and then in real time, changing that entire experience so that it’s all completely you’re using the verbiage that the as I’ve talked about earlier, in real time, okay, I’m looking for software for my camp. Okay, great. Now, the whole experience is just relevant to that. And everything else that applies to other ways that the software might perform for other industries that hidden and it’s all just laser focused on offering that to the customer. And that was why they increase conversion, and then subsequently, better quality of leads as well, because people knew exactly what they wanted, when they came in as a lead. And I think that the final bit that I know, that we talked about before was we can see by someone’s behaviour once they visited that website, but we came up with together a really great idea around getting prospects to self identify and confirm themselves what vertical they sat in what they were interested in, as soon as they hit the website, whereby we couldn’t identify behaviour because there exists something called cookies. And we need first party cookies to be able to do that. So as surfs dev team got involved, we were working together so that when a visitor hit the website, they were served a pop up experience that asked them to identify the industry they were in it then pushed them into that behavioural experience. And again, the whole thing changed. And once they were in that they were in that for their entire customer journey. So I mean, I don’t know if you wanted to add anything on that asset because it was a it was definitely a collaborative approach.

Asaf: Yeah, I want to add basically, how we reach these points, because probably the listeners are like, you know, so how did you come up with all these ideas? Right? So the way that we started is we started with the IP data. We started with the IP data, and we were like a, I think five or 7% personalization of the visitors and we were seeing good numbers. Once we personalise we were seeing good numbers, and we said okay, so now our goal is to reach 50%. We want 50% of the visitors to be personalised. Now, how do we do this? In the beginning, we were like, Okay, let’s use Google. We have we have very strong SEO and what how As is, Google will send people to a pillar page like a page that is talking about exactly about what they’re interested in. So we said, Okay, anybody who hits this page automatically gets personalised. So if anybody hits a camp page, from this point on rich package just for kids, or anybody who hits after school, from this point on, it’s only after school. So first, we were using Google. OK, Google is helping us. Obviously, we were using also the landing pages and any any paid search, etc. So I think with that, Christy, we reached like 15, or 16%. And we were like, Okay, this is great, but it’s not enough. We need to go a step further. So, at this point, I brought in my dev team, and we’re like, okay, let’s, let’s create a pop up on the website that we can control if they can close it, and, and how long before it pops up? Which basically tells them, what do you want to build today? Okay, or what are you looking for, and it took a long time to find the exact time that will pass when they’re on the page, to have it pop up, so that the bounce rate won’t go up, if to allow them to exit out and not allow them to exit out. It was like a real, as you understood before, like, I’m very analytical and scientific. So it was all like, you know, very, very done in a very scientific way where we were looking at data all the time. And eventually, we got like, you know, the right combination. And right now what’s happening that are specific pages that we give it between 35 to 42 seconds to actually read the page, and then a pop up comes up, and you’re locked in, you have to say, like, what you’re interested in. And what happens is they’re sent to the pillar page. And we do that also to help them understand, you know, what we can do for them, but mainly in order to personalise, because from this point on, they will be personalised to that specific vertical that they said that they’re interested in. And that’s when we started seeing really high conversion rates. I also want to say something that’s very interesting that happened, the number of leads, did not go up in like, you know, a crazy amount. It went up about twice, right, which is amazing, right? But the biggest difference was the quality of the way that we measure it is like we care about the leads, and then we say, okay, who are invalid leads, no contact leads, etc. And then eventually we have, how many leads are actual possible deals. Okay. And if in the past, we had about 27, to 30% of leads became possible view, we’re at 67%. Now, 67% of our leads are possible deals, it means that they come in, they understand exactly what they’re gonna get, and they’re interested in talking to us. They don’t like cool down and like, No, I don’t want to talk to you guys. And that was the major difference. So in a way, the personalization is, like Webeo is one element of the personalization, but goes through the whole system, where the email that they get is based on a pillar page, like the email after they become a lead, is based on the pillar page they came in, everything is personalised, all the experience, the specific team that works with them, and sales is only the team that takes care of this vertical. And then the pm that works done is only the team that works on this. So the personalization goes throughout all their experience. And then like I said, they have the aha moment only at the end of like, we can do more for you. But whether you’re really like, beyond giving us the technology to do a lot of these things, they gave us the understanding that we need to have this type of personalization throughout the process.

Mike: And that’s impressive, because actually, what you’re saying is the impact on volume of leads, which was to x is actually slightly less than the impact on quality, where, you know, the percentage quality has gone up about two and a half times. So presumably, a lot of that is you’re actually moving prospects further down that customer journey before they’re filling in the form. And just doing some quick maths, it’s like, it sounds like you’ve got about five times the number of opportunities than you had prior to using LabVIEW. Yeah, I’ve got to ask this question. I mean, you’ve talked about a lot of things. You’ve talked about the pop up, you’ve talked about, you know, doing the the optimizations around where people land. I mean, so how much time and money did this take to actually implement it? I mean, is this an incredibly expensive and time consuming process? It’s

Asaf: not expensive, because it’s only you know, you need to think about the ideas. So you just need to be sharp, I guess, in terms of like, time, it took about, I think, Christie, like six months until we reach this point, right? But it’s like it’s continuous iterations. Now, maybe it’s my software background and the understanding. It’s just this is how you build software iteration like you. You constantly try to improve it like if you’re like a Can we reach the point? What? How do we make it better? How do we make it better? How do we make it better? By the way, in our emails, like our Moto, in the company is, is getting better. Like that’s what we believe in, like constantly getting better. So it was like, for us it wasn’t like trying to reach an endpoint. And I think we’re not in an endpoint to right now. Like, we’re continuing to improve on it all the time. Now that we’ve reached a high number of personalizations, you know, you get radio says, Let’s have 70%. So, so it’s, it’s yes, it’s time consuming. But it’s like part of what you do like marketing is, this is what you do you constantly looking at numbers, you’re constantly trying to improve the numbers. You you find ways that that you can do something that is smart. If you do what everybody else is doing, then yes, you’re going to spend a lot of money and you’re not going to see results.

Mike: I mean, that sounds great. One other question I’m interested in a lot of people when it comes to personalization, are worried about privacy and GDPR and legislation. Now, Kirsty, you are very specific in that you mentioned the use first party cookies. So this is obviously something you’ve thought about or Webeo. What are you doing to make sure that people can personalise but still say the right side of all this privacy legislation? Yeah,

Kirsty: of course. So, obviously, IP doesn’t fall under the same legislation as GDPR. Because we are processing personal data. So you know, the ICAO have worked with us on that. And you know, we’re really clear about the opportunity there, we are identifying a business IP address and marketing to a business, there’s no way to personally identify, so I think that will always be a part of the future. But the you know, first party cookies provide great context. And so it’s just about leveraging that as much as possible. Most of us, we’re all of our behavioural personalization sits behind cookie consent. So obviously, we give the buyer the opportunity to receive that personalization. Once they’ve accepted cookies, I think, you know, it’s about working closely with our customers so that their own privacy statement works. But also, they work hard as well, to encourage consent, because ultimately, the buyer does get a better experience. And so so that does continue. We’re also beyond the first party cookie data that that we capture in, in web you, we are powerfully able to leverage our customers first party data. So any of our customers, you have Marketo, HubSpot or Pardot, will be dropping a cookie, on their website for a customer and with consent, again, capturing that data. And they’ll have a lot of rich insight on those potential customers and customers that sit in their MA platforms. And we’re able to pull that into Webeo. Again, we’re not seeing any personal data, all we’re doing is knowing that visitor as part of that Marketo Smartlist. So we’re going to serve them this experience. And we actually do the same with sixth sense as well. So it’s always with permission, but doing as much as we possibly can to leverage that data. So we don’t use any party cookies at all first party. But ultimately, what we are seeing when we do that is a richer experience. And also, that is when our customers kind of softer stats really start to improve as well, because, you know, we’re seeing, okay, people are getting the experience that’s relevant to them, more time on site, more pages viewed lower bounce rate. So I think there’s a there’s just an ongoing piece to be done by all of us, as B2B marketers to educate our buyers about the value of, you know, serving them something that’s powerful and relevant, like we used to it as consumers. So it makes sense in the B2B space to.

Mike: That’s great. And I think, you know, one final question on this is, do you think this is all finished now and done? Or are there things you’re looking to do to further improve your number of leads and conversion rate, and also the softer time on site metrics?

Asaf: So first of all, we’re capitalists and we’re greedy. So we won’t. But yeah, like we want to improve the conversion rate. We want to give even a better personalised experience to people and get more people seeing the personalization. One of the issues is exactly what you talked about the cookies where I think all Apple users all their cookies are blocked by definition unless they, they change it. So I’m trying to convince Kersey to implement a device recognition technology, which GDPR does not cover and I think that’s fine because it’s only for that specific session. And from our perspective, that’s, that’s enough. For example, our whole system is cookieless. And we do everything based on device recognition. and which from our perspective is the works? Well, I think also one of the possible issues that will arise eventually with IP data and all that is the fact that a lot of people work from afar now. So it’s very hard to detect what they’re like, what’s their industry or what company they’re working for, basically. So I do think that the future is in device recognition. And, and we’re seeing a lot of a lot of companies pop up that are connected to that and that are creating real value through that. And eventually, I’ll convince Kersey to implement that, and then we’ll do more.

Kirsty: Yeah, I think, to add to that, I think, you know, our US customers do find it easier with regard to GDPR. And, you know, cookies and similar tech, as is included in the legislation, the US legislation, as far as privacy is not as strict as it is in Europe. And, you know, there are challenges with businesses, I think, and this is, this is a key thing, that’s a really important point to make, because I love as I’ve saying all of that, because he’s got the right attitude. Sometimes within a business, the people making decisions about what should be done with privacy on the website, have no connection at all, to what that organisation is trying to achieve. And, you know, they’re implementing things that, you know, make it really, really difficult to have a conversation with the buyer with no context of okay, well, that’s going to impact our ability to pop up the chat or serve a demo request. And so organisations have to be connected on privacy. And, you know, marketers need to be really informed so that they can have that argument back to the legal team who just snapped blindly. But like, you know, there’s always ways that you can take advice and ensure that you’re combining the best experience with you know, respecting that visitors privacy is really important.

Mike: I think that’s great advice. I mean, I really appreciate the time both you’ve given us explaining what you’ve done, it’s been fascinating. And we’d like to ask a quick question. And one quick question for both of you. I don’t know, Kirsty, if you want to go first, I’d love to know what the best bit of marketing advice you’ve ever been given this?

Kirsty: Well, I’ll say the piece first, and then I’ll say why. So I mean, it’s measure everything. Because if you get the input metrics, right, the output metrics happen automatically. And I have to say, when I got into marketing, I did not think I’d be spending my time analysing spreadsheets and data and getting excited about a slight change in percentage, but that now is what drives me I, you know, I definitely was of a creative mindset. But I think the gift with marketing is that you get to combine that that creativity with Okay, so what has that idea? What is that hypothesis actually done in terms of numbers back into the organisation? I think, you know, I see it so much having been agency side and obviously working with clients now that, that lack of rigour with regards measurement makes it really difficult for marketers to justify what they’re doing. And we should be measuring things like, as I’ve talked about, right the way through to revenue, it’s happening much, much more nowadays. But that’s your point of justification, measure, measure, measure, and, you know, anyone looking to get into marketing, it is exciting. I promise, the measurement is exciting. So don’t think you’re gonna be all math it, but it is, it’s the best part of it. I

Mike: love that. And I mean, listeners will know that I’m actually I started my career as an engineer. So I love numbers. That’s great. And lastly, so if I mean, from your point of view, what’s the best bit of marketing advice you’ve received?

Asaf: I would also agree with Christy, I always tell all my marketing team, leave your ego at the door, bring your creativity. And remember, this is a science. It’s a science, it’s now it’s not like, you know, the 80s where it was about, you know, creating the most creative thing, no, this is a science, you need to find out what is working, and then push on that. I would add to that one thing that some marketers fall into, they fall into only looking at the numbers, and forgetting that marketing is creativity, you sometimes need to do a leap of faith, you need to say, I think this is what’s going to happen. And this is exactly they were like what we’re talking about. Here’s an example that this was a leap of faith, we believed that this will work. And we said okay, we’ll try it out. And and it worked. Now it could have failed at the same time. And then we would be like, Okay, fine, let’s try something else. But I think that’s something that a lot of marketers today are starting marketing right with only analytics. Forget you still need to be bring your creativity and you still need to do those leaps of faith. Where you say I think this is going to work. Why I have no idea. I just think it is

Mike: That’s brilliant. I mean, great, great advice from both of you. I really appreciate your time. If people are interested in finding more about what you’ve done or about your respective companies. I mean, what’s the easiest way to contact you, Kirsty? What’s what’s the best way to get ahold of you?

Kirsty: Yeah, I mean, obviously, I’m always happy to hear from people on LinkedIn. So please, obviously, send me an InMail. If you want to hear more about Webeo understand more about what we’ve done. Obviously, we’ve got the website’s got loads and loads of rich content on there. But I’m happy to receive contact personally as well via LinkedIn.

Mike: Awesome, and Asaf.

Asaf: I’m not gonna lie, if you send me a message on LinkedIn, you’re not going to get an answer. Probably want to learn more about Regpack, just Google red pack, and you will find like a tonne of information there. You’re

Mike: a busy guy building a building a company and growing fast. I totally understand that. That’s very honest. And I really appreciate that. Thank you both for talking about the you know the project you’ve worked on together. I’m sure a lot of people are going to find it, you know, very thought provoking and helpful. I really appreciate you both being on the podcast. Thank you. Thanks so much for listening to marketing B2B Tech. We hope you enjoyed the episode. And if you did, please make sure you subscribe on iTunes, or on your favourite podcast application. If you’d like to know more, please visit our website at Napier B2B dot com or contact me directly on LinkedIn.