In our latest episode on Napier’s Marketing B2B Technology Podcast, we interview Joel Harrison, Editor-in-Chief, who shares the exciting news that B2B Marketing has launched Propolis, an exclusive new digital community for B2B marketers.

Find out more about Propolis as well as Joel’s views on the future of publishing and how social media will develop for B2B marketers in the future, by listening to the episode here. 

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Transcript: Interview with Joel Harrison – B2B Marketing

Speakers: Mike Maynard, Joel Harrison

Mike: Thanks for listening to marketing b2b tech, the podcast from Napier, where you can find out what really works in b2b marketing today. Welcome to the latest edition of marketing b2b technology, the podcast from Napier. Today I’ve got john Harrison, from b2b marketing, who’s talking about what b2b marketers need, and also how he’s evolving the publication and developing some new features. So, without further ado, welcome to the podcast, Joel.

Joel: Thanks, Mike’s lovely to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

Mike: Great. Well, I’m before we get into detail. I mean, can you just give some of the readers if they’re not familiar with what you do a little bit about yourself, and also about the b2b marketing website?

Joel: Well, b2b marketing, I mean, it’s one of those titles for an organisation that makes perfect sense when you publish a magazine because it obviously is your masthead. But then when you take it outside of that, it becomes a generic term. We’ve been we we launched in the early noughties in 2004, with the aim of recognising celebrating, promoting, encouraging the b2b marketing sector, which at that time, I can remember was seen as something of a sideshow and the kind of correlation to b2c marketing. And, you know, we believe that we’re thrilled in that time, it’s come on leaps and bounds and is really recognised as a proper series in its own right. And we flatter ourselves, we’ve been in no small part of that journey that the whole industry has been on. And we’ve been doing that, over that period by lots of different things. We’ve done it all around content and events. Initially, it was a magazine, and we’ve quickly got into events, what a great awards programme award ceremony, it’s one of those nights, which is a bit like the 1960s. If you if you couldn’t remember it, then you weren’t really there. And we do lots of conferences for conferences here. We do training, we produce reports and do webinars podcasts of our own. And we’ve got a leaders programme where we, where we bring together CMOS marketing directors, heads of marketing, to talk about key issues in a safe space for a number of years. So lots of stuff all around helping marketers to be better and be more successful, more and more better connected around the world of b2b marketing. And, you know, it’s kind of been doing it for, dare I say, pushing 20 years now terrifying. Very, very rewarding. I love the industry, it’s a great place to work.

Mike: Fantastic. Now, it sounds like you’ve you’ve changed what you do quite a lot from you know, starting out, you know, I guess primary is magazine to, to where you are now and understand you’re now actually no longer going to publish the magazine and building yourself much more around being an online community. Is that right?

Joel: Yeah, that’s right. I mean, we’re literally just taking this decision the last matter of weeks. We, you know, our leaders programme, as I said before, has been the core of the business for a while now. But we hadn’t redeveloped it from the initial very much since we initially launched it, you know, a number of years back and we’re publishing is going publishing is a retrospective term is moving towards online communities, we’re seeing much, it’s very much a trend happening across marketing as a whole. And it’s a great way of actually just formalising we’ve always already done, if you ever been to our ignite event, all the b2b marketing awards, you know this, because it’s a great meeting place for people that you bump into people that you haven’t seen for years, and you make opportunities to connect with people that, you know, are going and so we’ve always provided that facilitation. But what zapnito, the platform building some will allow us to do is to make this to provide that and a whole different level, and provide that most informal stuff, but very formalised connectivity and learning and shared experiences, share perspectives, and producing a whole different type of content as well to feed into that via via this very, very powerful online platform. So we’re really excited about it.

As a consequence of that, you know, the magazine is has been a great kind of centre, the business for a long time, information patterns have changed, consumption, people, how they consume information is different. And the media landscape is different. And, you know, the time has come to move on from it. And you know, I have I have a degree of kind of, it’s sad, a sad day for me, at least because I’ve been there all the way through, and I’ve put my heart and soul into that product. But you know, when the businesses business and when the time comes to move on, you have to do that we are sentimental and look to the future. And that’s what we’re doing. And we’re very excited about the future.

Mike: That sounds fantastic. I mean, how much of this is driven by the challenges of getting print advertising to fund the magazine compared with the opportunity to get online promotion or online income?

Joel: Well, I mean, to be honest with you, my print advertising hasn’t funded the magazine for quite a long time. We know we’ve sold print advertising in it as mostly as part of larger deals, what are our business as a kind of lead generation in terms of kind of the media We sell meat lead generation has been where it’s at for a number of years now. And so what typically people buy from us is, is lead generation services in the form of webinars or content creation or content dissemination, roundtables increasingly starting to increase the podcasts as well, that’s more brand rather than leads. So the advertising in a magazine was the kind of the icing on the cake, which was inconsistent icing on a cake, if that’s not stretching a metaphor. So you know, that that that that model role is has has gone a while ago, and needs to move at the times.

Mike: And that’s interesting. So how are you finding the business? Now? I mean, I, one of the things that always amazed me was you were so successful in getting people to pay for subscriptions to access the premium content on the website, something I think a lot of publications that I speak to be marketers target, would love to be able to do. So can you let us into some secrets as to how you did that, and how else you’re building your income?

Joel: Well, you know, the membership as, as was was both based around getting the magazine and getting the best content, which is the premium reports that we did, you know, and we weren’t able to do that there were other people in the market, both marketing and other sectors that did similar things, and one that always needs to manage procurement leaders in the procurement space were very, very good at this kind of stuff. You know, when we launched, we weren’t, we were launched into a market where they were 20 marketing magazine, and we knew that another control circulation magazine wasn’t going to make it by itself. So we needed to do something different. And, you know, it was indicated, I think, because of how things have played out, I mean, you know, we’ve always had to be agile, and have always had to be flexible and responsive. And we had to pretend to not treat content like a commodity, and try and take the high ground, and you have to go to where people find the value. And I think there was a point where reports are very, very valuable. They provide great evidence and comparative information. But this is why we’re going with community because that’s it’s that ability to connect with people in a in a safe space and to share experiences without being inappropriately sold to that is hugely valuable to people. Interesting.

Mike: Yeah. So are you going to keep with premium membership? Or is that something that’s going away and you’re becoming more of open access site?

Joel: Ah you did ask that I apologise, I didn’t quite cover that in my previous response. I mean, a lot of our content has always been free. On the website, certainly, and we will our existing website, is we’re going to revamp it, but it’s going to remain fundamentally the same, you’ll have to probably be registered to access a bit more of it, but it won’t be paid for with the best stuff as as as the moment as is at the moment, we’ll be back, we’ll be on a separate platform. The platform was called propolis is launching on Monday, on Monday, the 18th of January, it will be you’ll be able to see some of it from a taster of it on our main site, but the most of them were behind a paywall. And we’re selling deals to people to access that now, and we are selling, it depends on where it’s built for client side marketers, you know, agencies are off separate opportunities, more kind of sponsor orientated. And then there’s because it’s those if the client side community that were really set up to serve the core of those people. So yeah, it’s, it’s a, it’s a different kind of model. But with what we’re seeking to sell, now the benefit of the community is your allows you to sell a corporate subscription. So you’re able to access this, the CMO, if there is a CMO, the organisation can access and communicate to the audience. And then you can also have different forums to access different levels. So if you’re a head of content, for example, there’s a place for you and if you’re maybe marketing manager, there’s more as a place for you as well. And it’s geared around levels and also around kind of topic areas as well. So, and we’ll be bringing hopefully bringing some of the event stuff in as well, where we kind of extend the life of our events over into those forums. So it’s really exciting. And, yeah, it’s gonna, it’s really transforming us as a business

Mike: That sounds amazing. We’re really looking forward to seeing it. Right. And I’m interested to know, you know, you’re obviously right at the leading edge of some of the publications, business models. But also you have the challenge of understanding what the trends are in b2b marketing. I mean, can you talk a little bit about how you understand, you know, what people care about? And as you say, you particularly serve the client side, marketer, how do you understand, you know, what questions they’re asking so you can provide the answers?

Joel: Well, it’s a good, very good question. I mean, we’re actually doing a piece of research just now, which we’re hoping to launch the results of, very soon is called our annual trend tracker, where we basically ask people about a number of kind of marketing trends or topics and how they ask them to how they prioritise those things against each other. And that actually, that data, the survey just closed, I don’t actually have the results. It’ll be published in February, and it will be in part of our agency’s benchmarking report, so you get to see it there. So that’s one way we do it. The other way is more anecdotal. One of the things which we did when, when COVID hit, I took over responsibility for the roundtables we were doing. And actually, we’d had them physically and it was one of those. It’s a classic example of how COVID has helped people to innovate and do things more effectively, digitally. And we move the roundtables from being physical things in our office to being digitally. And the response was just fantastic. You know, we got it was so welcome. The attendance went up dramatically, particularly in the early days. Because people we needed a support network, we needed to go to places where they could think of let off steam and, you know, see what other people were having the same problems they were. So talking to senior marketers on a either a group basis or a one to one basis and listening to people, I listened to a lot of conference sessions, because I host a lot conferences, you know, I get a sense of what’s going on there.

And I, by the way, I don’t want to be snobby about agencies, because, you know, agencies have supported us from the very earliest days, and continue to be key supporters and key components of the industry, absolutely fundamental clouds, the industry, I’ve got some very, very good friends that are working for b2b agencies that I’ve known all throughout the time we’re doing and some some of them before. And I learned a lot from them. So it’s really it’s kind of like I see it, in some respects, my job, as editor in chief hasn’t changed when, as a magazine editor, it’s your job to take an aggregate to listen to disseminate the signal to listen to everything, and to to determine the kind of signal from the noise and understand where the trends are. And, you know, I think I’m reasonably good at. But you know, you have to play you have to try to watch out for your own biases, which is easier said than done sometimes.

Mike: Definitely, I think I’m interested. And I think a lot of people listen to podcasts be interested to know, you know, what do you think of the biggest things that marketers in the b2b space should be thinking about over the next year?

Joel: Well, I think we’re still, obviously, very tragically, you know, the pandemic is, is by no means over and was gonna be with us for a long time. And I think that’s continuing to shape things as they go, as we go. I think one of the most fascinating and I alluded to earlier on, you know, I think, the last couple of years, the penny dropped, the transformation was no longer an option. But perhaps the urgency thing hadn’t come into play, which I think now everyone accepts that, there is no, there is no time we have to do, you cannot transform fast enough, really. So. And I think that’s a great opportunity for marketers, and we’ve seen it so often, some of so many of our members have saying the things they’ve been able to do, they couldn’t do before, because the crisis, frankly, is created an agenda for change and marketing, if played well on the front foot can do that. And agencies benefit from that as well. Because they can they can bring fresh thinking in and so so everyone, everyone benefit from it. And I think I know that, like a lot of your audience is the tech sector. I mean, it’s it’s fascinating to see, the tech sector seems largely affected by COVID. And which is extraordinary and brilliant news for b2b. So I think you’re gonna see a lot more of that, I think you’re going to see that they’re kind of subject to sales enablement, has absolutely come to the fore, because it is, it’s shifted, the balance of power between marketing and sales and marketing is sales are relying on marketing to help them engage with prospects and customers in a way they never have done before. They can’t do physical meetings anymore, they need to know how to use content better, how to use digital events better. And so that’s that’s part of that’s, again, accelerated this the kind of shift in power balance or, or greater equilibrium and alignment that probably wasn’t there before. So we’re gonna see more sales and movement, we’re gonna see more focus on digital events as they evolve and content will blow with digital events. I think we’re seeing that and that’s where can you see is a great way of allowing that. And I think I mean, the the focus the migration towards account based thinking, everything, sales and marketing and everything else in between, you know, that’s just it’s gonna continue. So lots of trends, and there’s others as well. But you know, how long have you got?

Mike: Absolutely. I mean, one of the trends that you talked about I find particularly interesting is the change in the relationship between marketing and sales with, you know, sales, understanding that they need marketing and are getting value from working with marketing. I mean, do you think that’s a trend that’s gonna continue or Once COVID is over? Do you think we’ll end up you know, breaking up with sales and destroying the relationship?

Joel: I think it will. I think it will continue. But we can’t take it for granted. And marketing has to continue to work hard to to demonstrate its value and to preempt what sales needs. And it’s so fascinating how how long people have been saying that it’s been a truism for as long as we run the business, and it will continue. I’m sure it will continue to be the issue, just the dynamics of that relationship and the need has shifted. I think that what seems to change is the point where Mark was wearing Customers raise their hand and acknowledge and make themselves known to salespeople has shifted. And it was a point about seven years ago, when Gartner and CB showed that it was kind of something like two thirds of the way through the buyer journey. The suggestion is kind of shifted onto that at that, you know, 80% of the way through the buyer journey. And so you’re seeing now, much more of the trend, much more of the decision being made before they even have raised their hand and therefore you’re the spectre of e commerce kind of comes, you know, it looms, which is fascinating. And I learned recently that you can pretty much buy a JCB online, which is fascinating, and also terrifying. If like me, you’ve got a three year old, who’s obsessed with diggers. And I’m never going to show him that page. We can do that. Because otherwise I’ll be bankrupt within about 20 minutes. So yeah, it’s really it’s really, it has really shifted, and I think it’s but I think marketing batch report, marketing’s got to continue to work to demonstrate to demonstrate the value because think salespeople will more likely to go off and go back to the old ways given the chance.

Mike: Yeah, interesting. I mean, one of the things, I think I’ve seen is that as this proportion, the customer journey before the customer puts their hand up extends, there’s been a more and more reliance on marketing technology and marketing tools. Do you want to comment on that? Because obviously, I mean, b2b marketing does a lot in terms of looking at that marketing technology stack.

Joel: Yeah, there’s much more lights on tech. And it’s kind of terrifying how much it is. I feel a bit like we’re in a, and we’d actually doing some research on that right now, as well. We have our conference called get stacked, which is happening in in March. And that’s our annual look at the role of technology, and particularly marketing operations as an enabler of that. So yeah, it’s really, it’s,I think that there is a growing sense of maturity around it, though. Whereas before, we people were just that there was a kind of a, it was a kind of wild west Gold Rush mentality. I think people think things have calmed down a little bit now. And people are assigned to understand the complexity of it and making more measured decisions. But, you know, the, the tech companies are the best marketers in b2b, and they were still marketers still affected by shiny object syndrome. So there’s, you know, there will continue to be decisions made that probably don’t stand much scrutiny.

Mike: Fascinating. I think one of the things I like about your get stacked conference, is it’s going away from looking at particular point tools as being a solution. And actually talking about the you know, the entire stack you have of marketing technology, is that something you’re finding is resonating with people that they now realise that there’s no one solution?

Joel: Yeah, I think the notion that one platform by itself is going to be what you need is, I think, is very increasingly recognised is no longer the case. And it is about the infrastructure and is about the stack and the and the, and there’s a Adam, the bigger the organisation, the more wastage there is in that. And, yeah, I love this notion of Franken tech, where you have technology that should have been turned off, but somehow is undead, and it was continuing to exist long after anybody really got any value from it. So yeah, that that, you know, as a small business, we took our first marketing operations person on last year and hard to imagine now how we could done without him, because there’s just stuff that he knows that he can do that nobody else can. So it’s definitely a journey people need to get on to and start scrutinising what you’ve got, and how best to be best to use it

Mike: Fascinating. I’m just moving on. I mean, obviously, you’re morphing into more of a social kind of community rather than being this conventional, you know, single direction publisher. I mean, how do you see social media developing for b2b marketers over the next few years?

Joel: That’s a good question. I think it’s I feel like it’s, you know, it doesn’t feel like so long ago to me and possibly to you might be it was the young pretender. And people would kind of arguing about whether it’d be relevant or not. You know, I see now LinkedIn as a utility and Twitter to a certain extent as well, you know, I couldn’t do my job without it. I refer to it countless times a day. It’s so it’s gone into the background. And I don’t see any large leaps forward, I see a continual refinement of platforms, of, of usage. You know, I think people are, again, it’s a gradual maturation of understanding of what it can do and how to do it. And it’s not the be all end all. So is a very, very powerful tool, if used correctly, but the subtleties are sometimes elusive to people. And I think it’s as much around the kind of sense of listening rather than the broadcasting that works. That is most of its most effective and as of most value to people.

Mike: Yeah, I definitely agree. I think one of the big challenges is, as marketers, we’ve kind of been trained to be the ones talking all the time. And actually, that’s not necessarily an effective strategy. When you look at something like social.

Joel: I completely agree. Yeah. talk less, listen more, as they say,

Mike: yeah. So I’m interested about the new community. It’s, it’s fascinating, because b2b marketing has always been a mix between helping people do their jobs, and also helping people develop and grow their careers. I mean, do you have a priority there? Are you do you see yourself more as a, an educational resource or somewhere, that people go to make decisions?

Joel: I mean, both we’ve learned kind of professional developments definitely been part of our kind of remit. And, you know, training has been a really strong area of the business for the last few years. I think what’s interesting is that that is that’s been changed, possibly not so positively by COVID. Because we used to run training sessions in the office where people would, would come to our office, you know, 20 people a day, and they’d talk about IBM all day. And it was great, because they got actually part of the value was that collab like collegiate collaboration thing, getting exposed to other people. That doesn’t work in digital in the same way. So we’re still we’re in the process of we’re still offering training, it’s still successful, but not quite the same way. And we’re still trying to figure out how that works. But I think everything we do is a background is about development. You know, and I think there’s the the world of training, there’s a blurring of boundaries between what is content, what is training, and that will continue to be the case. And we I don’t think we’ve got a satisfactory answer yet. I know. Sometimes it’s easier to come up with an answer if you’re starting from a green a blank slate. So, you know, ask me again, in six months time, maybe everybody wants to better?

Mike: Yeah, I’d certainly agree with you. And talking to other agencies. I know that, you know, maintaining training, whilst everyone’s working remotely is one of the big challenges of COVID and remote working. So I totally understand that. Yeah. In terms of moving forward, I’m really intrigued. You know, you see a lot of b2b marketers, you work with a lot of very senior b2b marketers as well. I mean, do you have any advice on how people can build their career, how they can, you know, grow their knowledge, they become more valuable to their organisations?

Joel: I think I see things I say when I do, I do a lot of incumbency, speaking, so I go to b2b marketing teams, and talk to them about exactly what we’re talking about here, but probably more detail around the trends. And the things that I always say to them is, is if you want to build grow as a marketer, you need to, you need to make time to learn always to be basically creatively curious, always make time to learn, and expose yourself to new ideas and new thinking. And it’s easier said than done, I struggle with it myself. That’s the first thing. The second thing is is to, is to actively engage in, promote yourself and find your voice. Don’t be a wallflower. Get involved in communities, get involved in LinkedIn, write blogs, you know, volunteer for things, you know, you get so much out of being proactive and involved with things than you do by by by by just just watching, listening. And it is it requires a mindset change. And if you’re British, like me, it’s easy to be to be modest to not think you’ve got anything to offer. But you do and sometimes, saying what you think and having someone disagree with it is the most powerful thing you can do, because you’re both learn from that. So get out there, you know, start blogging, start get onto Twitter, it’s annoying, and Donald Trump’s off it now. So we’re all happier. And, and but but it is a great way of promoting yourself. The third thing is, learn the language of business, learn what your boss what your boss needs to know, and what your boss’s boss needs to know. Talk about frame what you talk about in the context of their requirements and needs, not just about what you think is important for your career right now. So talk the language of business, and be conversant in that and ready to talk about that. And the last thing is, is what has always been is be passionate, because nobody ever did anything if they weren’t passionate about it. And I think if you can’t, I think I think it’s a wonderful industry to work in. It’s never been richer, more dynamic, more exciting, more rewarding. And if you can’t be passionate, if you can’t feel passionate about it, I appreciate their obstacles at the moment. But if you don’t think you’re passionate about your job in your profession, then you’re probably in the wrong job profession. If you can be passionate, you’ll be much better at what you do.

Mike: I think that’s fantastic advice. I mean, just one thing I do see with a lot of b2b marketers is that they kind of get very corporate and very cautious. And you must see this with a lot of b2b organise As well, where, frankly, they can become a bit dull. I mean, do you think that’s something that organisations need to and are going to fix over the next? You know, few years?

Joel: Yeah, I think there’s huge strides being made. Now already. I think if you compare it to the mark the advertising, I say advertising specifically, they used to see in the naughties. I mean, and it was corporate. And it was it been done rung through, rung out through a corporate, often bs machine, shall we say? And it was, you know, let’s make the logo bigger. And all of those kind of cliches that was where my advertising and marketing was in an offseason, where it is in 2021 is a world away from that and is humanised so much. And I think and actually, this is something that pandemic again, has accelerated. And I think this is a positive thing. And there have been many positive things to come from Coronavirus, along with the many obviously horrendous and tragic things that happened but but it’s broken down one of it’s finally kind of banished those last perspectives of b2b being corporate and, and distant and human. And it’s, you know, it’s all about, it’s so much more human, as industry as a profession as a communication style to do the cold corporate advertising these days, just, it’s something at the Art now. And so it’s coming an awfully long way. And I think there’s a much better industry as a consequence.

Mike: That’s great. I mean, it’s great to hear your your enthusiasm and optimism. And I’m amazed because you’ve, you’ve run a publishing business in probably, you know, the 20 years where there’s been the most change and probably the most challenges for publishers, and you’ve morphed into this, this new community focused business that, you know, is really exciting. I’m really looking forward to seeing it. So it’s great to see your optimism. So I’d love to ask you, and is there anything else you’d like to tell the listeners that you think would help them move forward in their careers, and provide us with some more of this, this great enthusiasm and optimism,

Joel: I think I just kind of go back to the point I made earlier on, I think it was Winston Churchill that said, never waste a good crisis. And, you know, now is the time to change things, it’s gonna be much when things return to normal in inverted commas, whatever that looks like, it’ll be harder to do that. So now’s the time to change things, be bold, be brave, push yourself. And I’ll repeat a day. My wife is a massive David Bowie fan. And I was listening to a lot of the five years on after his death this weekend. And one of the things that he said, which I think actually somebody who I admire very tremendously prime McCready, who’s a great b2b marketer says, you know, if you, you need to put yourself slightly outside of your comfort zone. And if you’re, and that’s the right place to be, because if that’s if you’re outside of the, if you’re just nudging at the edge of what you’re comfortable with, then you’re gonna grow. If you’re just doing what you believe is comfortable and safe. You’re not going to grow, you’re probably not gonna be anything like as successful as you would be, you know, make mistakes, and embrace those mistakes, and then move on and do something better next time.

You know, I think the time to be safe is this isn’t the time to be safe. And if you want to if you’re ambitious, then it’s definitely time to be safe.

Mike: That’s great advice. So if people want to go out and take risks and start engaging with other b2b marketers, I mean, obviously, a great place to go would be the new community. So can you tell people how they can get involved and sign up and engage in that community?

Joel: Well, it is a, you know, it’s not open to everybody I’m going to be honest about this year, we are happy to sell membership to it. To talk to you in Sorry, I wouldn’t say anything, but to put in contact with the team who can tell you access to it. We know we’d love you to join love to participate in it. There are going to be there eight, it’s called propolis, which is a word relating to bees and, and propolis is the resin which bees used to create the hexagonal, hexagonal hives. And within the structure, there are eight different communities run or run by an expert. We have a trainer, someone who knows their stuff, people like Shane reading, for example, are already one of those hives, and the weather like minded people talking about the topics that are relevant into them. So we’d absolutely love to get you involved. If you’d like to understand more about the pricing structure, please contact me, you know, we’d love to be able to offer this for free. But you know, we have a living to earn. And there’s a huge amount of value to be derived from from this. So as a hegemon, it costs a lot to run as well. So that’s that’s the nature of the business. But we are it’s definitely we want this to be the home of b2b marketing wants to be a vibrant, dynamic community, which sets the tone for what goes ahead, and we’d love you to be part of it. So please get in contact with me and I’d love to tell you more.

Mike: But that’s great. And I think people should look at this as a real investment rather than a cost. You know, and I think particularly you know, if we’d look at some of the UK based marketers, people are perhaps less willing to To invest in future and education and so hopefully, you know, propolis will let you know and encourage more people to do that.

Joel: Yeah, absolutely. And I think if you, you know, and if you don’t believe that come to one of our events, even our digital events, we had a call just now with a with a US Agency saying, I’ve never seen engagement levels, like the ones that you had at your IBM conference last year, you know, and Americans are typically much more gung ho than us kind of wallflower Brits are, and they were knocked out by it. So, you know, that’s an indication of the kind of community we’re trying to cultivate. And we already have successfully cultivated. So we’re looking for more of that, and we hope you can be part of it.

Mike: That’s really exciting. We actually had somebody attend the IBM conference as well from Napier. And I know, they came back and they wrote, I think five or six blog posts about it, they were so excited. So I totally agree, the events are great. And if people want to get hold of you, Joe, what’s the best way for them to contact you?

Joel: You can tweet me I’m a b2b marketer. I’m at Joel_@b2beditor at Twitter. You can reach me on LinkedIn or you can email me Joelharrison@b2b I’d love to hear from you.

Mike: That’s fantastic. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. Joel. I really appreciate it,

Joel: Absolutely. Welcome. Thanks so much for inviting me.

Mike: Thanks so much for listening to marketing b2b tech. We hope you enjoyed the episode. And if you did, please make sure you subscribe on iTunes, or on your favourite podcast application. If you’d like to know more, please visit our website at Napier b2b dot com or contact me directly on LinkedIn.