5 Top Tips for Successful ABM Campaigns

ABM has quickly become an integral part of the B2B space, and we are continually seeing more B2B companies jump on the ABM train to generate high-quality enquiries. But with so many approaches to choose from, it can be hard to understand which tactics and strategy you should be using to generate the best level of success from your campaigns.

In this blog, we explore five top tips that B2B marketers can use to enhance their ABM campaigns, and ensure that the strategy implemented is the right fit.

Appeal to your audiences pain points

The best type of ad needs to be compelling, not only to stand out from the marketing noise but to also compel your target accounts to click through. Do your research and ensure you understand what your target customers pain points are. Ensure you communicate this effectively in your ad creative, and then continue this message flow through to your landing page. Campaign contingency is key when communicating to your audience.

Remember it's important that your target accounts ABM journey is personalized to their problems and needs, and appealing to your audiences pain points with a personalized landing page is more likely to lead to more conversions.

Work with your sales team

When implementing ABM campaigns, it's important to work with your sales team to ensure they have the capacity to follow up on the leads. You don't want to spend your advertising budget, generate leads and then find out three months down the line that they haven't been followed up.

Ensure the sales team is involved from the start when planning your strategy, and aware of the process and goals you want to achieve from your campaign. They should also be able to provide some fantastic insights into the movements and interests of your target accounts.

Clearly communicate what is expected from the sales team before you start the campaign. This could include outreach to prospects when they engage/show an interest and relay progress back to the marketing team.

Use insight to plan your messaging

It's important to look at different areas to ensure you have all the insight to plan engaging and relevant messaging. The first point of call would be to look into your past sales data. Ask yourself, what topics interested our target accounts the most? What would be the most interesting for them to hear about, have they ever shared problems they are facing?

It's also a good idea to look forward to trends that could be entering the market. Are these trends something that your target accounts would like to adapt or focus on? It's always good to be ahead of the curve if you can.

Another valuable piece of insight can be gained by tracking what parts of the website your target contacts visit the most. This can provide some integral data into what your audience is interested in, whether this is a service, product or topic. This can be tracked easily using marketing automation, and can often be easy to gather this data. Read the next tip to find out more about this...

Use automation and sales alerts to your advantage

It's important to take the time and understand what your target companies and contacts are interested in. Marketing automation platforms often have the capabilities to track what pages your target companies are visiting on your site, and automation can be set up to provide the sales team with alerts sharing which companies are viewing what on your site, or which emails they are interacting with.

This information can help you tailor your ABM campaigns, whether this be ads or emails to what your audience is truly interested in, and also helps keep marketing messages aligned, as sales should be able to share if a target accounts focus has shifted throughout the process of the campaign, or if you find a tailored ad and messaging is not working as you hoped.

Talk to experts to get advice if you're unsure

There's no harm in asking for help if your unsure what approach is best for you and your company. ABM can be complicated, and it's important to get it right to ensure your getting the best RoI from your campaign.

Tools such as our ABM tactics advisor are there to help, which provides recommendations based on your unique situation. Or alternatively please feel free to drop us an email, and we'd be happy to discuss what approach would be best for your ABM campaign.

4 Email Marketing Trends to Watch Out for in 2021

I recently came across an email marketing trends report from Smart Insights, a publisher and online learning platform. The report was part of their email marketing and marketing automation toolkit, which focussed on the email marketing trends we can expect to see in 2021, based on insights from surveys and 10 email marketing experts who gave their views and examples of the future of email marketing.

With email marketing remaining one of the most effective techniques for marketers, keeping up to date with the latest trends, best practices techniques and email marketing technology remains important.  This blog will explore 4 key trends marketers need to watch out for in 2021 as shared in the Smart Insights report.

Emails will become more interactive

As technology continues to evolve, more companies are adapting and looking to make more elements of their emails animated or interactive. As recipients are becoming increasingly used to some kind of animation or interaction functionality, more and more marketers are using EDPs (email service providers) or AMP technology to include some form of interaction, whether this is surveys, carousels or rollovers, to engage customers throughout their decision-making process.

Whatever the functionality may be, this is certainly something that will increase in use and that marketers should consider to make their email stand out in their target accounts inbox.

Intelligent Personalization will be more utilized

Email personalization has been possible for a long time, but in fact, is something that many marketers do not utilize. Moving to intelligent personalization lies within reviewing your segmentation. Your database consists of several different kinds of people, with different interests, profiles and behaviours, and who all deserve to receive personalized emails based on their interests and needs.

Many marketing automation systems have the capability to provide automated emails to contacts that are tailored and triggered to send based on the pages they visit, the forms they fill in, as well as products they have bought before. This provides the opportunity for marketers to use this data to automatically send emails that could feature 'money off' vouchers for specific products, encouraging customers to re-engage and buy additional products.

Emails will focus on customer experience

Marketers have long lost patience with brand-centric messages, and often demanding more meaningful, relevant and personalized experiences from the emails they receive. We now live in a world of customer experience marketing, which is a newfound focus on the customer and ensuring that companies are truly responding to their customers' needs, wants, and current situation.

A/B testing which has always been necessary for a successful email marketing strategy will be a big part of this. Its important marketers can understand what is truly resonating with their customers, and tools such as our Napier A/B Test Analyser calculator can help you understand what data you can pull valuable insights from. This testing can also help you uncover insights to inform your marketing strategies across all other channels, as you can get insight into your customer thinking and motivation.

The use of AI will increase

Many email marketing and automation providers now include AI features within their platforms to improve personalization, with the aims of improving relevance, engagement and response.  AI can be used to create automation of product recommendations, using the data available from the subscriber to predict which products and content are most likely to be interesting. AI also provides marketers with the opportunity to remove the need for rules-based manual configuration of email campaigns and instead evaluates historical interactions and responses to generate insights for future communications, allowing marketers to improve relevance and messaging of campaigns to generate a higher quality of results.

Although AI is certainly something that is being used by marketers already, we suspect that many more will be looking to take advantage of this technology. With several tools available, marketers don't need to invest big parts of their budget in order to use AI to their advantage. In fact, there are several low-cost AI tools that can help marketers optimize their campaigns without breaking the bank. You can read more about this in our Truth about AI in Marketing blog. 


To read the full report and to find out more about the trends expected in email marketing for 2021, please click here. 

Napier Shortlisted for PRmoment B2B PR Agency of the Year Award

We are delighted to share that Napier has been shortlisted for the PRmoment 'B2B PR Agency of the Year' award.

Faced with tough competition each year, we are delighted to have been shortlisted as a finalist. Thank you and congratulations to the Napier team for their hard work in making this happen.


Electronic Specifier Announces Webinar Summit

Electronic Specifier has announced a webinar summit, to be held on 1st September 2021. As a one-day event, the Electronic Specifier publishing team has unified their experiences with other virtual shows, conferences and exhibitions to create a unique virtual event for electronics engineers globally.

Due to some mixed reactions regarding the recreation of exhibition halls in the form of virtual booths, the Electronic Specifier webinar summit will take place without the 'lobby' or 'booths; and will instead focus purely on the content.

The event will focus on providing companies with a platform where they can discuss industry trends in electronics, and the latest products and technologies in sectors from Automotive to Wireless; focusing on topics that readers are finding the most valuable from Electronic Specifier's online shows.

The collection of live webinars which are part of the summit will be promoted separately and will be relevant to electronics engineers around the world.
Here at Napier, we think it's great to see more virtual events taking place, with a focus on ensuring high-quality content, and we look forward to hearing what we are sure will be positive feedback from the event.

If you are interested in participating in the event, please contact ben.price@electronicspecifier.com for further information.

all-electronics.de Launches New Website Design

The all-electronics.de website has been re-launched with a new design, offering users a number of new and improved functions.

With a new clean and clear layout, the website has been designed to allow visitors to more easily search for sector-specific information, and now features a company directory, offering users the opportunity to quickly and easily get information about relevant companies.

The website has also been optimized for mobile device users, to address the steadily increasing number of visitors who access all-electronics content via mobile devices. This optimization has prioritized a responsive design, ensuring the all-electronics portal is user-friendly across all devices.

We think it's great to see all-electronics.de making these changes to optimize its website for a digital world. With the new version of the website now live, visitors can explore the new features at all-electronics.de.


Electronic Component Show Rescheduled for May 2022

The Electronic Component show (ECS) has been rescheduled to May 2022. With the original show scheduled to take place in 2020, and postponed to 2021 back in April last year; the decision for this latest postponement has been taken due to the ongoing COVID-19 situation.

The new date for ECS will provide exhibitors with the opportunity to meet more visitors at the show in a relaxed environment, with reduced restrictions. With many other electronics or manufacturing events moving trade shows to the last quarter of 2021, this move will allow ECS to host their show without fear of clashing with any other exhibitions.

With the pandemic having affected exhibitions for over a year now, we are looking forward to seeing the return of 'in-person' trade shows, and what these might look like in the 'new' normal.  Further information about the 2022 event is due to be released soon, and you can stay up to date, by visiting the ECS webpage. 

Electronic Specifier Launches Series Three of Podcast

Electronic Specifier has launched series three of its 'Electronic Specifier Insights' podcast.

We've previously reported on Electronic Specifier's podcast, which aims to provide listeners with the latest updates and information about the technology and current progress within the electronics industry. So, we were pleased to hear that the podcast is still going strong with the third series of the podcast now live, covering topics from drone delivery to the Raspberry Pi.

With podcasts now becoming a staple for many publications and companies, it's great to see Electronic Specifier maintain the momentum for its podcast, and continue to provide listeners with the latest from the industry.

Listeners can access the podcast via all major streaming services, or via their website.

EETech Media Releases Electrical Engineering Study

EETech Media has released an Electrical Engineering Study, which provides insights into how engineers behave during the design process, as well as the challenges engineers find to be the most pressing, and how they view open source solutions.

Based on research conducted across the past four years, in partnership with Wilson Research Group, the report analyzes data from industry professionals around the world.  Key questions that are addressed include:

  • What skills do Electrical Engineers want to pursue?
  • What types of content do they turn to for information during the design process
  • How has COVID-19 affected engineers and their companies
  • What emerging types of content do engineers prefer when learning about our industry

At Napier, we are always interested when a new report is released, especially when it's one that provides some critical insights on the inner thinkings of engineers. With the aim to help the industry understand the information needs of the engineering audience, this report provides some fantastic insights into relevant and timely topics such as COVID, to assist companies with their marketing plans in 2021.

To find out more about what the research has revealed, please sign up for the on-demand webinar by EETech, by clicking here. 

Editorial Changes at Electrical Engineering Magazine

Niamh Marriott has been named as the new Editor at Electrical Engineering magazine, replacing Carly Wills who is now Editor at Electrical Contracting News.

This move means Niamh is now Editor at the Electrical Engineering, Converter and Components in Electronics publications.

We wish both Niamh and Carly the best of luck in their new roles.

Hardware Pioneers Max 2021 Postponed to September

Hardware Pioneers Max 2021 has been postponed to 23rd September 2021, due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

Aimed at connecting technology and service providers operating in the IoT development sector, the event was due to take place on the 3rd June 2021 at the Business Design Centre in London.

Due to the roadmap of restrictions being lifted in the UK, the new date should allow technical decision-makers and entrepreneurs working in IoT to network and attend the event in person.

With more details due to be released shortly, we will look forward to seeing the return of 'physical' events, and the response from the industry.

For more information on the event and how you can attend, please click here.  

A Napier Podcast: Interview with Olivia Kenney - LeadSift

We are delighted to share the latest interview from Napier’s Marketing B2B Technology Podcast.

In our latest episode, we interview Olivia Kenney, Marketing Manager at LeadSift, a sales intelligence platform that generates qualified leads using intent signals. Olivia shares how LeadSift helps B2B marketers solve everyday issues, and how intent data can be used to get ahead of competitors and generate a higher quality of leads rather than a large quantity of leads.

To listen to the interview and to stay up to date when a new episode is live, click one of the below links to subscribe:

Transcript: Interview with Olivia Kenney

Speakers: Mike Maynard, Olivia Kenney

Mike: Thanks for listening to marketing b2b tech, the podcast from Napier, where you can find out what really works in b2b marketing today. Welcome to the latest episode of marketing b2b technology, the podcast from Napier. Today, I'm with Olivia Kenny, who is a marketing manager at lead sift. Welcome to the podcast. Olivia.

Olivia: Hi, Mike, thank you for having me.

Mike: Thanks so much for coming on. I mean, I'm really interested, you know, can you just give me a bit of background about your career, and what's led you to working at lead sift. So,

Olivia: I've always been very interested in technology and b2b technology, specifically, starting with my last role, which was at kewra, which was another b2b technology companies specifically in engineering requirements, software. And they're I really got a deep glimpse into the challenges behind lead generation, and specifically, the balance between quality and quantity. And it's a lot easier to get a lot of quantity than quality, of course, which is why the opportunity that came from me at lead sift was so exciting, because it's really an opportunity to solve the problems that I was dealing with every day as a b2b marketer. And now with leads that I get to work really closely with the demand generation strategies, and with our customer marketing strategies, and things like that, and it's been really great.

Mike: Awesome, I mean, I love the thought of getting better quality leads, I think, every market has been frustrated with sending a batch of leads across the sales, and then just getting the reply. They're all rubbish. So how do you do it? I mean, what does lead Sif do to ensure that marketers generate that higher quality of lead?

Olivia: Yeah, that's a great question. So at least if we mined the public web for signals that people are looking to buy, so this can be anything from social media, to job boards, to public forums, and we can scrape this information, find intent signals, and then we can actually tie that back to a specific person showing intent. And then we work closely with our customers to figure out their ICP who they're trying to target down to the job title. And then we deliver that that data to them.

Mike: Great. So you talk about intent? Can you just give us some examples to explain what you mean by intent or intent data?

Olivia: Sure. So intent really is any signal that someone is actively in market or looking to buy. So that could be anything from engaging with one of your competitors, hiring signals, adding any technology, anything that shows that they might either be thinking of making a decision, or recently got budget or anything like that, that would put them in the buyers journey.

Mike: Okay. And you're talking about the public web. So you're looking at social media for that, or looking broader.

Olivia: Yeah, social media is a big part of it, but it does go broader. So social media, anything that you could find, manually, we can just do it at a much larger scale. So social media, public forums, job boards, websites, anything like that.

Mike: Interesting. And, I mean, the thing I found fascinating about your website was you talk about intent data at the contact level, can you just explain what other people are doing and then then what you mean by contact level intent data?

Olivia: Sure. So to start kind of out as as a broader seen other companies in the space can find intent signals at a company level. So they can tell you, for example, someone that IBM is, in market to buy. The difference is that leads if we can tell you, the director of data science at IBM is looking to buy. And this is so valuable, because it really narrows it down and make sure you're a talking to someone that is in your ICP, and be talking to the actual person that is interested in in market so that you're not playing a guessing game of who is the right person to reach out to.

Mike: And presumably, when you look at bigger companies like IBM, I mean, that's really important because IBM so big, there's probably someone in IBM looking to buy almost anything at any one time. Is that is that is that the challenge people come up with?

Olivia: Yeah, that's exactly it's so hard to know, who is looking at what so we're able to actually narrow it down and say, and often it's more than one person, which is great because that's a stronger signal of intent. But it's really great to be able to narrow it down and not only tell you who but also be able to tell you what their email addresses how you can reach them, their LinkedIn profile, all of the necessary information including exactly what signal of intent we found for that specific person.

Mike: Okay, and you talked a lot about ICP. So the ideal customer profile. Are you filtering all the signals of intent down to just providing the the People who are who fit that customer profile? Or are you doing something a bit more? Maybe, you know, helping companies understand who their ICP should actually be?

Olivia: Yeah, that's a great question. So we work to narrow down to your ideal customer profile. So you give us all of that criteria, all those criteria, and then we look at these companies that fit, also your ICP, so the industries you're looking to sell to the size of company, location. And then it's not a way to determine your ICP, it's a way to target them. So we provide data that matches your pre existing ICP.

Mike: Perfect, so you've got to understand who you're trying to sell to, because that's one of the ways you filter this intent data. Is that is that the right understanding of it?

Olivia: That's exactly right. And there are instances where, for example, a company might be showing intent. And it's not necessarily the specific person in your ICP and the specific persona that you're looking for. And in that case, we can give additional contacts within that organisation that do fit your ICP so that you're always reaching out to the person that is the best fit for you.

Mike: Great, great. I mean, one of the things I've heard about in 10 data is actually it's just lead scoring. Is that right? Or are you doing something very different?

Olivia: Yeah, that’s, that’s a great question. So intent data can definitely be an important piece of the puzzle when it comes to lead scoring. It's definitely something that should be used and majorly considered. But it's so much bigger than that, especially when you're looking at the contact level. It is super actionable. In terms of email outreach, ad targeting ABM for prioritisation and personalization. So, as much as I do think it is important to us in your scoring, and we actually provide an intent score specifically with each lead. It's, it's really an integral part of our marketing strategy. And I actually consider it as its own channel alongside organic or direct or paid spent.

Mike: Interesting. And does that mean that what you're doing is you're actually generating a lot of very time specific data with with intense I mean, is that is that the big difference? You know, people are showing they want to buy now rather than, you know, perhaps have an interest in a product and maybe in a year's time?

Olivia: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Timing is everything. And it's a really great way to be able to action leads, while they're relevant while they're looking. And before they choose one of your competitors. Basically.

Mike: I think that's a great point. I mean, we talk to our clients a lot about, you know, speed through the funnel. And, of course, the big issue is if a client chooses a competitor doesn't matter how good your marketing is, if you're too late, you're never going to win. And I think, you know, that that's a great use of intent data.

Olivia: Yeah, exactly. And we can tell you, specifically, when someone is engaging with one of your competitors, that you can kind of swoop in and beat them to the punch.

Mike: Wow. So you find out how people are engaging? How, How'd you do that? I mean, I guess you're not, you're not spying on them or waiting for them to call, you're looking at what they're doing on the web. Is that right?

Olivia: Yeah, exactly. And there are definitely some nuances to it. As much as I wish this happened. Most people don't just raise their hand and say, Hi, I want to buy your product. I'm talking to a competitor XYZ. Here I am, email me. Unfortunately, that is not how it works. But we can look at signals based on social media engagements, following comments, things like that, that are publicly available. And then we can determine based on those and other signals, that someone is engaging with your competitor.

Mike: Great, so. So maybe we can make this more tangible and understand, you know, what, what a signal would be I mean, if you're, for example, looking for a marketing agency, I mean, what are the things that lead Sif would pick up on you doing on the web, that would show that you've got intent to hire a marketing agency? Sure.

Olivia: So there are a number of things that could be engaging with your competitors, or engaging with topics surrounding your use cases. That's really the way I like to frame our keyword search is less about what you provide and more about what you sell for. And then some other options would be like your hiring signal. So for example, if you were looking to sell to an agency, you might see that they just hired a new marketing manager or something like that the person that would be your key user, and that would show that they probably have new budget and a need for a new tool. So that's a perfect opportunity to kind of swoop in and know exactly who to reach out to within that company.

Mike: Interesting. So I guess in a way, people who use LinkedIn Sales Navigator get like very basic sort of intent data because they'll get these new hires appearing in their feed is that is that a similar concept or be a little bit similar?

Olivia: Yeah, that's that's a similar concept, definitely, we can do it just more at scale, and then with the contact data on top of that, so it's definitely something that really goes well, when you have tools like Sales Navigator to work in tandem with intent data.

Mike: Cool. Okay. Um, so how does a marketer work with leads? If I mean, I mean, do they just turn up and say, you know, these are the companies I'm targeting? This is this is my customer profile in terms of job title. And these are the things that relate to my industry, the keywords?

Olivia: Yeah, like, that's a great starting point, it definitely depends on their use case. For example, me personally, I, I use our data, of course, in my own marketing strategies. And one of my favourite ways is to use it for ad targeting, because it can be super hard to target in b2b, through ad platforms to reach the actual people that you want to. So yeah, so you determine what your use case is going to be. You figure out your keywords, your competitors, location, give all that to us, we build your campaign, and then you start receiving the data.

Mike: And how does that data appear? Is that a list of companies you should approach or you really just down to, you know, directly giving the contact?

Olivia: Yeah, we give full contact level data. And that can either come as a CSV or directly into someone's here, I'm a marketing automation tool, which makes it super actionable, and easy to track. But yeah, we give everything first name, last name, industry, job title, LinkedIn, profile, URL, email, phone number, really any contact level information you can think of?

Mike: And that sounds like that's, that's pretty much sales ready? I mean, do you see the marketers, you know, running lead sift to generate the leads, and then they, they get handed off to sales or marketers doing more with the leads before they consider themselves qualified.

Olivia: I always recommend multi-touch approach. So I think the best way to do it is to get as many touch points as possible. So that includes running ads to make sure people are aware of you sending them marketing, nurture, emails, things like that even sometimes building your content strategy around engagements that you're seeing, but then simultaneously giving those leads to your sales team. And then in a more personalised way, reaching out to them is the best way to see success.

Mike: I love that idea. So you're saying that you can watch the your competitors content, find out what prospects are engaging with, and then create the content that excites the prospects is that is that that what you're saying?

Olivia: Exactly. And even seeing the topics that they're most often engaging with, and even down to? Okay, my leads in this industry are specifically super interested in this one topic. We don't have a tonne of topic or content about that. So let's produce them and make sure that we're giving them exactly what they're looking for. Because we have that insight now.

Mike: Perfect. And you mentioned that people use lead sift in tandem with LinkedIn on LinkedIn Sales Navigator. In terms of the other activities, are they also working, you know, alongside an advertising platform? I mean, what are the sort of other tools that tie into your lead sift campaign?

Olivia: Yeah, so we have quite a few integrations with CRM and marketing, automation tools. Specifically, Salesforce is our is our biggest direct integration. And then we also work, you can always leave in most of the common ad platforms. So anywhere that you can upload a list to create an audience, you can easily access. So Google ads, Facebook, LinkedIn, ad roll, really, wherever you're building your audiences, you can build ads campaigns to specifically reach those people. And actually, for ads campaigns, specifically, we give up to five emails per contact. And those include personal emails instead of just the business emails that we provide in our other campaigns. And that's to increase our match rates on the outs platforms, because most people aren't signing up for LinkedIn with their athletes. yp.com or whatever their work email is.

Mike: Interesting. So you're doing what some of the ABM platforms are doing and matching personal or business emails together within your own leadership platform.

Olivia: Yeah, exactly. Just to increase the match rates on those platforms.

Mike: Awesome. So. So in terms of approach, you know, it all sounds very easy, but is there kind of a best practice approach or a process people should go through to really make lead generation effective?

Olivia: Yeah, definitely, I think when it comes to lead generation, multi touch approach is always the best way to go. Making sure people are aware of who you are, before they get those sales emails is one of the easiest ways to make sure that they're ready for you to talk to them, because you don't want to jump the gun and go into early and then turn them off from what you're trying to sell to them. So I think a multi touch approach is definitely a best practice when it comes to lead generation and really knowing your ICP Making sure you have those processes in place to understand who your most successful customers are and targeting people like that. So that it's all about quality over quantity.

Mike: Yeah, I love that you're back to that quality over quantity, I think something that, that every marketer, and also every salesperson would love to hear. So that's great. I am interested to know, I mean, one of the things that obviously concerns people listen to the podcast in Europe is GDPR. I mean, how, how easy or difficult is it for you to be GDPR compliant?

Olivia: Sure, so leads were actually GDPR compliant because of something called reasonable interest. So since we're mining this from the public web, and it's all publicly available data, we can determine that people are interested enough that you're allowed to reach out to them, obviously, making sure you still have an unsubscribe button and things like that, to be compliant are super important. But in terms of GDPR, with the contact data, it's all actionable within compliance.

Mike: And the reason that you're able to claim legitimate interest, presumably, is because you're so targeted, you're so specific, you know, these people are, are reasonable targets to go after.

Olivia: Exactly. So since we can say, well, this person did this specific action on LinkedIn publicly, we're allowed to then target that person.

Mike: That's, I mean, that's great. And I think that's, that's probably very reassuring for a lot of potential European customers. I mean, tricks like do you do you get a lot of pushback from potential customers worried about GDPR? Or when they understand the process to do they? Do they, you know, accept it and feel confident that there's no issue?

Olivia: Yeah, I mean, we definitely have people, especially in the early stages, that have had concerns, but it's all about how you action the data, so as long as you're acting in a compliant way, and sometimes that means like, sending sales emails first, before sending bigger marketing emails, and targeting them with ads first, and letting them come to you. There are ways to make sure it is like as seamlessly compliant as possible. So once people understand that process, and do it that way, then it's worked really well.

Mike: Interesting. Um, are there particular industries where lead sift is more effective? I mean, it seems like, like maybe some industries, you'd be more likely to engage in discussion about them than perhaps others.

Olivia: Yeah, so our the main people that we targeted the main people that we see having the most excessively, except our other b2b technology companies, usually in the middle, like mid range, like 50 to 5000 employees, even that mid range, and b2b Tech has really seen a lot of success with leads.

Mike: And that's presumably for a couple reasons. Firstly, tech, because people tend to engage with content around technology on social media, so you can see the intent visibly. And secondly, because if you're an IBM, people who can afford to buy from you probably come to you anyway. So there's, there's less value is that? Is that a reasonable understanding of why it's that mid range?

Olivia: Yeah, you could say that I think it definitely. The b2b space is, first of all super important because we're providing other businesses data, and tech, I think it's just the nature of how marketing strategies unfold in b2b tech. It's a lot of ads, email outreach, things like that, that is really cohesive with what we do. The other audience that actually has seen a lot of success with lead sift our b2b marketing services company, so anyone doing any kind of lead generation content syndication, appointment setting, they've really seen a lot of success with leads of by using it to add value to their clients packages, and booking more ICP meetings for them.

Mike: Fascinating. And then presumably, if you look at things like the military sector there people have not engaging publicly, and it's not really a market for for lead sift.

Olivia: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Mike: No, that makes sense. So. So it's great that most people listening to the podcast in the b2b tech market. So we've definitely got the right guest on today. And I think people who've listened to this, I mean, they'll be fascinated, they'll be thinking, well, it doesn't sound very hard to do. It certainly makes sense to me. And the idea of quality over quantity is something that I think more or less all marketers or salespeople, as I said would be, you know, would be delighted to hear so I guess the next question everyone's gonna ask is, is it a super expensive technology then?

Olivia: It's, it's not it's not we don't charge per lead or anything like that. It's a standard monthly rate. It typically starts around 15 $100 a month and you have unlimited leads with that.

Mike: Wow. So that more use The more value you get from the platform.

Olivia: Exactly, exactly.

Mike: So yeah, so very reasonably priced. And then you say it starts from that to people then buy more features more capabilities, or do they buy support and consulting? I mean, how would people spend more money?

Olivia: Sure, that is a great question. So one of the ways that it might be more than 1500 is if you need additional categories, or you have additional use cases, for things like that it's, it really changes based on use case, and how much data you need specifically,

Mike: Absolutely makes sense. If you're a big industrial conglomerate with, you know, 20 different markets you're addressing, they're all completely different, then you're going to need much more in terms of support from lead sift, than you would if you're a very focused tech company, just selling one product, one market.

Olivia: Yeah, exactly. So we often sort our data by category, and you get a certain number of categories when you sign up. And if you need more, or, for example, if you are an agency using us or a partner of ours reselling our data, then that obviously scales that way.

Mike: Absolutely. Absolutely. Makes sense. So I guess, you know, we're coming towards the end of the interview, I'm going to be cheeky, you've obviously done a lot of lead generation, you've seen a lot of lead generation. So other than using lead safe, which I think goes without saying as being a top tip for improving lead generation. And do you have any other ideas or thoughts about how b2b companies can actually do a better job in terms of lead generation, and particularly in terms of improving quality?

Olivia: Definitely, I think something really important that I've learned more and more over the last year is not getting caught up in attribution. It's so hard to track attribution, especially in its space. For example, we had a lead come in about a week ago. And the way they found us was one of their colleagues had seen one of our ads, they were calling didn't click it, we never could have traced it back to them. And then he told his colleague about it, who then searched us and it looked like the lead came in through direct traffic, even though it did originally from an ad. But it's so hard to know exactly where leads are coming from, I think it's more important. Like the bottom line is more important for me, at the end of the day, as a b2b marketer, revenue is number one. So if that means I put more ad spend in and I see organic, increased direct traffic increase, just an across the board increase, I value that because a lot of times you can spend more on ads, and you don't necessarily see an uptick in leads from ads. So I think not getting caught up in attribution is really important. And another important thing in b2b marketing is understand that marketing doesn't end when someone becomes a customer. It's a full cycle. And your messaging just changes as people travel through the buyers journey. But marketing doesn't stop.

Mike: I think particularly the the comment about attribution, people will love I know, my experiences as a marketer is even when you can produce really clear evidence of you know, how that prospects engaged, the lead will go to sales, and it will be entirely down to a sales relationship. And anything we'll have done, if the lead turns out to be a big customer will be completely irrelevant. So the fact we don't have to stress about that, I think it's really great.

Olivia: Definitely, I think more people are starting to understand that which is, which is great to see.

Mike: So, I mean, I guess the other question is, what do people do wrong? I mean, do you see any any consistent mistakes that people should avoid?

Olivia: Yeah, I think sometimes people can get caught up in models and frameworks, and kind of an analysis paralysis, where they spend so much time trying to make sure that they're doing the right thing that they don't end up doing anything. So I think it's more important to just do something, learn from that iterate on that process. And if it doesn't work, fail fast.

Mike: Brilliant, that's fantastic advice. So having listened to this, if people feel that, you know, lead sift might be a great product for them, they want to improve the quality of the leads, they want leads to arrive when when customers are ready to buy, I mean, how would they go about evaluating the lead Sif platform, and really, you know, getting to the point where they know whether or not it's the right product for them?

Olivia: Sure. So the best way to do that would be to go to our website, which is Leadsift.com and book a demo. Alternatively, you can find me on LinkedIn, Olivia Kenny, and ask me any questions and we can take the conversation from there.

Mike: Well, that's amazing. So I mean, thank you so much for your time and for your, your great insights on lead generation. We've actually recently done a survey of b2b marketers, trying to understand what the priorities are coming out of COVID. And not surprisingly, lead generation was by far the most important priority. So it's very timely to be able to talk to you so thank you very much for your time.

Olivia: Thank you so much for having me.

Mike: Thanks so much for listening to marketing b2b tech. We hope you enjoyed the episode. And if you did, please make sure you subscribe on iTunes or on your favourite podcast application. If you'd like to know more, please visit our website at Napier b2b dot com or contact me directly on LinkedIn.

Growth Acumen Podcast Interview: B2B Sales and Marketing Trends in 2021

Napier's Managing Director Mike recently sat down with Steven Norman, owner and host of the Growth Acumen podcast, which aims to help B2B sales leaders upgrade their knowledge and skills.

In the podcast interview, Mike and Steven discuss marketing campaigns that deliver a sale advantage, and how Napier strives to align the sales and marketing functions in order to drive targeted, high-value results.

Listen to the full interview here, or via your favourite podcast app, and don’t hesitate to get in touch and let us know your thoughts.

New Virtual Show EDS Reconnect Announced

EDS Reconnect is a brand new virtual experience for the engineering design sector. Taking place across two days from 31st March-1st April 2021, the event will feature a series of keynotes, case-study led presentations and interactive panel sessions, which will address the key challenges and opportunities facing the UK engineering sector in 2021.

The event provides several networking opportunities, with visitors able to book meetings directly with suppliers and speakers, as well as visit virtual booths. With over 30 keynotes, panel sessions and presentations planned, key expert-led talks include 'Driving energy efficiency and lower EMI in industry 4.0' and 'Getting the Smart stuff wrong when creating innovative products.'

It's great to see EDS Reconnect provide a virtual platform for engineers and professionals to be educated on the latest within the engineering design sector. With no clear future on when physical events will return, virtual experiences are becoming more crucial to ensuring that the industry still has the opportunity to network outside of the traditional exhibitions.

Napier Celebrates Over 10 Years as PRCA CMS Agency Member

We were delighted to be recognised as a member of an elite group of agencies within PRCA, receiving the CMS Gold logo as recognition of Napier holding the PRCA Communication Management Standard (CMS) accreditation for more than ten years.

As part of the #HireaPRCAmember campaign, Mike, Managing Director at Napier has shared his view on the importance of ethical practice, and why holding a CMS accreditation is so important to Napier via a short interview on the PRCA website.

The CMS is a challenging audit of our processes and procedures and is a fantastic way for our hard work to be recognized. As a reflection of our team’s commitment to quality and continuous improvement, the CMS Gold logo highlights the great processes and systems we have in place at Napier. Congratulations – and thanks – to the whole Napier team!

Electronic Specifier Launches New 'Women in Technology' Website Category

Electronic Specifier has announced the release of its brand new website category Women in Technology, which was launched to mark the celebration of International Women's Day (IWD) 2021.

The 'Women in Tech' section aims to educate readers and highlight the fantastic achievements women have accomplished in tech. With stories including interviews with influential women from the industry, the section follows the IWD 2021 theme of 'Choose to Challenge', where we can all choose to challenge and call gender bias inequality while choosing to seek out and celebrate women's achievements.

Here at Napier, we were delighted to hear about Electronic Specifier's new website category, and see stories that raise the profile of women in engineering. We look forward to reading more articles that highlight the achievements of women in the industry.

Elettronica TECH and The IoT Radar Join Forces for New Video Channel

The Italian web community Elettronica TECH has announced a new publishing partnership with Wisse Hettinga, producer of The IoT Radar, an independent video production company with a strong focus on the Internet of Things and related technologies such as Edge Computing, Machine Learning and Artificial Intelligence.

Consisting of a series of weekly video interviews, The IoT Radar is hosted on the Elettronica TECH website, with the aim of informing and engaging electronics engineers, and hardware and software developers. With videos no longer than five minutes per interview, the series provides 'first-hand' information to help professionals in the IoT ecosystem from design, production and integration through to research, and educational companies and publishers.

It's always interesting when a publication takes a unique approach when interacting with their readers, and here at Napier, we think its great to see Elettronica TECH use The IoT Radar to educate and inform their readers.

To find out more about The IoT Radar series, and to watch the interviews that are already live, please click here. 

A Napier Podcast: Interview with Sam Ovett - Mobile Pocket Office

In our latest episode on Napier’s Marketing B2B Technology Podcast, we interview Sam Ovett, co-founder of Mobile Pocket Office, which is leading the way in helping new and established businesses augment their human and technological resources to leverage growth and streamline productivity.

Find out more about Mobile Pocket Office, and Sams journey from a whitewater kayaker and guide to becoming a complete automation nerd, by listening to the episode here. 

To stay up to date when a new episode is live, click one of the below links to subscribe:

Transcript: Interview with Sam Ovett - Mobile Pocket Office

Speakers: Mike Maynard, Sam Ovett

Mike: Thanks for listening to marketing b2b tech, the podcast from Napier, where you can find out what really works in b2b marketing today. Welcome to the latest episode of marketing b2b technology, the podcast from Napier. Today I'm talking to Sam over who is the co founder of mobile pocket office. Hi, Sam. Welcome to the podcast.

Sam: Hi, Mike. I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me on.

Mike: Great. So I'm, I'm really interested to know, can you just tell us a little bit about your your background and how you've got to founding mobile pocket office?

Sam: Yeah, certainly. So you know, funnily enough, it's it's pretty non traditional. But my background is, after after getting a degree in college I did. I was a professional whitewater kayaker and guide. So I spent a lot of times in the outdoors taking a lot of risk and guiding people through that experience. And then, around a certain point, I decided that I wanted to be on the digital side of things, I didn't want to use my, my body to make my money. And I was really clear that automation was taken over the world, as we all feel and wanted to be on the right side of automation. And there's a bit of backstory there around co founding this with my dad, who had a lot of history in business analytics and process. And so we decided that we'd join forces do something together, I'd become really involved in the marketing side from the outdoor sports perspective. And I made a shift, just kind of a deadpan shift, I said, I want to do this, and I made the made the shift, and we launched mo pocket office and I can, there's the whole story of how we actually, you know, kick that business off and everything like that. But the bottom line is I went from being a professional whitewater guiding kayaker to, you know, a complete automation nerd.

Mike: Wow. So, I mean, there's so much in that I'm intrigued to know, for a start, you know, which was more stressful, you know, being a guide for people in whitewater kayaking or launching a new business?

Sam: You know, that's a good question. I was asked it quite that way. You know, what I always say is, you know, there's a lot of stress when you work with someone's business, and, and it's their livelihood, and other people's livelihoods, their their employees, but at the end of the day, nobody's gonna die immediately. That day, the risk of dying, that day is very low, whereas in the other, the risk is there and real. And you can drown, you know, as the primary thing and seeing that happen. And so, I would say that it's less stressful in that acute way. But I think on a daily basis, you know, when you get off the river, it's all good joy. And when you're improving somebody's business, there's a lot more stress, and I have a lot of real, you know, I get really involved with these projects. So I think the stress is a little higher here. But that's okay.

Mike: I mean, that's an interesting comparison, nobody's gonna die today is, I guess, a mystic view. But yeah, and you also start a business with your dad.

Sam: So that's a whole story on its own, but I think it's, you know, I was looking to make a shift. And he had, he had long worked on the business analytic side of, of business process with enterprise clients. And he was ready to make a shift and wanted to have a little more fun in the process side and focus more on the sales and marketing process, because it was always something that he enjoyed doing. But a lot of his work was in the analytics side.

And so, I had been really involved in marketing automation, when as an athlete, because I was automating some of my social media stuff and things like that. And I wanted to make a shift. And so we decided to kick this thing off together as partners, and you know, it's challenging working, or it can be, it can be challenging working with a, a parent, in my case, you know, the dynamic is one that we had to figure out what are the core things I'll share this because I think it's interesting is we had to figure out how to how to effectively debate an idea down to a better version of it. And it's easy in the relationship for as a father, right for him to say, you know, Sam, that's not a good idea. We're not gonna do it. But the reverse is more challenging for me to tell my father, hey, hey, Josh, this is bad idea, you know, and here's why. Right? It can become a very personal attack like feeling that way. So one of the one of the things that we worked out, as we did this outside of just the, I guess, also the kind of quote unquote, standard things that go along with growing a business is how to communicate about ideas and problems and solutions. So that we weren't at the end of day was we left to go, and hey, I love you, you know, you're my dad. And then for him, you know, you're my son. And that was always more important. And so at first, there was a lot of friction that was generated and, and, you know, we get a bit upset each other. And then we learned to say, Hey, you know what, it's not personal, we're going to do what we call catalyst session, we're going to catalyse this idea down to a better version of the idea. And it's not personal, but it's all just about getting ideas better. And the way that has improved our business, and also our relationship has been pretty cool. And I think something that has come out of this outside of just the business aspect of it, you know, the relationship side of it.

Mike: That's, that's really cool. And really good to hear. I mean, this approach, this capitalist session, is that then something you're able to use with your clients as well.

Sam: It really is. And it's one of those things where it's like, okay, let's take an idea. And you can, you can ask questions around this, however, is interesting, let's take an idea. And let's try and distil it down to the better version of the idea. And let's cut through the crap, right. And let's, let's try and throw out the bad stuff and keep the good stuff and iterate this too, it's a better version. And that can be really, you know, we you have an idea that your baby, or it's something that you came up with, personally to be attacked, on the principles of the idea can be can be, feel really personal, unless it's stated upfront, hey, this is a session to bring an idea to a more distilled better, workable, more simple, but more effective, you know, state that we can then execute on. And so doing that, and I think anybody can use this process with any any relationships they have, whether their personal relationships or business relationships. And for us, this has been just a, I mean, really a game changing way to communicate, to get to a better idea, because that's the hardest thing is, you know, you offend people, they get upset that timeline, slow down, blah, blah, blah, like, that's, you can't run a business like that, you know, it's too slow. It's not gonna work. So if you can have a method, say, hey, let's do a catalyst session and get this idea down, then everybody walks away and goes, Yeah, you know, you're not attacking me personally. We're just trying to distil an idea.

Mike: So awesome. So, I mean, let's take a step back first, just think about, you know, the business mobile pocket office? Absolutely. I mean, when you started it, what did you think it was gonna be? What did you really want to achieve?

Sam: So the thing that we want to achieve with it, and here's, basically, we saw a gap a hole, you know, Josh was working for years with these enterprise clients. And the gap that was always really visible. And I saw it in the outdoor industry that I was in heavily at the time, that was my, you know, kind of my realm that I was involved with, was this idea that like, in enterprise, and in most businesses, what we see is people are really good at their fulfilment, they spend a lot of time looking at the fulfilment process, right? Because if you can't fulfil whatever you promised, the people are buying, that's the fastest way to take an existing business, right? Not necessarily the fastest way to grow it. But the fast way to take an existing business, you don't deliver on whatever your promises, that that's not good. So people focus on that where the opportunities are missed, is in the sales area where you have a lead that's come in, right, you figured out how to generate interest. And then the process from lead to converting to a sale, that's the biggest opportunity that is just usually just completely wasted. It has a lot of human effort involved. And what most the majority do, that we've seen, with until they're introduced to this idea that, hey, you can add automation and process to this is they focus on, you know, who's the hottest lead now, right? What's the best account what's the best deal, and that's the focus, and everybody else who could potentially be a really good customer is forgotten about until that person eventually maybe comes back and says, Hey, I want to do you know, I need a big order, right? Because that's your focus. That's how you that's how you make your Commission's and that's how you survive. And so we see the just complete lack of focus on nurturing people and following up with people, especially at the enterprise level, because you're after the big deal, whereas you could be nurturing, you know, maybe 100, little deals, that could become bigger deals over time, with automation, and some process in place. And we see that that whole was just it's glaring. You look around and and it's tough to navigate politically to an enterprise, because you're you're trying to implement technology with automation. And that's always a challenge to get everybody on board when there's a lot of human sales people involved.

Mike: Interesting. I mean, the thing that fascinates me as you sit, you said it was about automation and processes. I mean, most of the enterprises that we see have, you know, more automation packages then then they could possibly use to help automate marketing and sales. So, so is it about the process? Or is it about, you know, getting the right automation package?

Sam: So, it really is about the process, because when what what do you mean, when you say automation package? Let's open that up for a second.

So, I mean, typically, typically, you might see, you know, a large enterprise have, you know, Marketo connected to Salesforce, I mean, they're spending huge amounts of money on on the the systems to run both marketing and sales. That's right. And so and that's what we see, too, and it's absolutely the case, is what I tend to see is that, like, they they usually have the technology, right. And the technology is usually there for them. But it is not usually leveraged in a way to enhance process and make it easier to be kind of this bionic human salesperson that's supercharged with the ability to follow up. And in the enterprise world. I see they usually have, you know, they do a decent job getting their newsletter out right to the different segments of clients.

They're pretty good about that. And usually, they're using Marketo and Salesforce, you know, like you could with, you know, you could kind of do the same thing with MailChimp almost. And, and so they're just pretty underutilised. Usually they've spent a lot of time designing the visuals of the database, right? but not necessarily thinking about? How do we follow up with people at different stages of the sales cycle, when business needs to be repeated? A lot of it's just some kind of really basic trigger or list. And they're still building reports that aren't dynamic and have paying somebody to build those things to say, oh, Who should we follow up with, you know, Who should we whose time for the recurring are? Like, let's take a manufacturer, we have to recertify certify something, right? Oh, it's time to get this person recertified, okay, let's all send them personal emails. And then that gets tracked into the CRM system. So they, they use these modern tools. But largely, this isn't, of course, there's there's always outliers, but largely, they use them as like old school CRMs, just a place for the information, versus using it to really drive process and follow up. And that's the opportunity loss that we see the most. Whereas you've got these folks who are I call them like Hidden Hand combat salespeople, right?

They're going out to trade shows, they're doing all these things that are the, they're effective, but they're also kind of an old school way of, of selling. They go out, they get a stack of business cards, and then they follow up with the hot prospects. And all that information is in the CRM system. And then you know, the person's getting the newsletter, maybe if they've got them on the right list. But outside of that, they're not really following up with the different specific product lines and things that they could be interested in. And making sure they're introduced to other parts of the business that they that that prospect could then buy after they bought the first thing, and educating people because the old school role of salesperson was largely outside of closing you was to educate you on your options. We have the internet now we had technology that can help you do that. And that's the gap. That's the big gap that we've we've really worked to fill when when we're working with a company, and then the rest flows from there, right? You have process. That's all downstream of that initial stuff. But the if you can get your conversions up, then you're basically saying, Hey, we're doing this amount of work to go out and generate leads and interest in people being excited about our products. And you're getting more effectiveness, more efficiency out of that top of the funnel work that you're doing.

Mike: Interesting. I mean, the thing I wonder about is, you know that these sales people are marketers that a large enterprises, they're smart people, why are they not seeing the problem and addressing it?

So here's a here's what we see. Usually, the marketers in a company are excited about it. They want to do it, but they get pushback from the salespeople. Because salespeople naturally want to guard. They're, you know, they're hunters, they're going out there hunting is a good one, they naturally want to guard their deals. And they don't necessarily want to tell everybody how it's done. And that's okay, but if you can equip that salesperson, and make them a more bionic salesperson where they could be following up with hundreds of prospects at a time Time that are somewhat interested in, they're going to have the opportunity then to have more closing calls versus prospecting only calls. I kind of went around the question a little bit. But I think the big reason it's an issue is because the bigger the enterprises are, typically the slower they move, and there's more politics. And so yeah, if you're a medium sized business, you can make decisions and just put them in place pretty quickly. And your, your, your biggest challenge is bandwidth. But if you make the decision, there's not a lot of pushback, politically, within an organisation. So the bigger you are, the more pushback you are, you might, you know, we see people get, the more consensus, you need to change the way things are done. And I think that's why it moves largely slower. And that's also why you see some of these really small, digital oriented businesses just crush it, because they can make businesses decisions so fast and changes so fast, that they're really effective at that. But you know, they don't have the market presence that some of these enterprise companies have. And that's where enterprise companies really have a leg up. They've got branding, market presence, all of that. But most of their marketing is usually sort of PR oriented. Marketing versus automation oriented, marketing. And you can have both. So as that kind of answered the question, we can have

Mike: A great answer. I love the idea of that ratio between closing two prospecting calls.

Sam: I thought, yeah, yeah, like that's as a salesperson, what do you what do you want to be on, you know, if I can get to closing calls all day long, versus out hunting, like, if marketing does a good job, I've got leads, right. And after that, it's up to me, usually they get passed off, but they're not followed up with any salesperson, just by the nature of time being constrained, they're gonna go after the hottest prospects, biggest deals, that's going to be top of mind. And if you don't have any kind of automation to follow up with all those other semi interested prospects, that probably would buy something as long as you maintain, you know, Top of Mind presence with them, and educated them about how the product or service benefits them. The amount of sales you could close in closing calls you could be on. I mean, you can have your calendar booked out way more than you normally would.

Mike: That sounds great.

Sam: I mean, yeah, it does, doesn't it? It's just like, you know, I can imagine every salesperson listening, just going, Yeah, that's what I want. Yeah, that's what I want to do closing calls all day making my Commission's right, that's, that's the magic. And so if you can put that automation in place and buy into it and say, hey, I want to leverage these systems and not keep all the stuff in a little notebook to myself, and just put in the minimum that I'm asked for, you know, what good automation team, and it's usually driven, oftentimes driven out of the marketing side of things is going to do is, is they're going to help you close more deals. And so if you can feed that information back to them, well, they're gonna help you find better prospects, they're gonna help you create longer term follow up. And I think every, every salesperson has heard it, but like, the magic is in the follow up, right? It's not that you're closing a deal on the first call, that's like, you know, sure, that's lovely. But like, that doesn't happen. Most of the time. It's a it's a follow up game. And any good salesperson knows that right there real good. Follow up. Yeah. So take that idea. And take the busy work a follow up, which is manually sending that communication and getting it out at the right time. So that someone's actually got a customer journey and experience an automated, there's a lot of different ways to do that. A lot of ways to look at it. But the core idea is that if you can follow up better at that stage of interest to converting to sale over the course of at least an average sale cycle, make sure you maintain communication, you're going to generate more business, you're going to close more deals.

Mike: So I mean, we've had a bit of a puppet, some of the enterprise companies. Yeah. I mean, is this a an enterprise specific problem? Or are there similar problems with smaller and midsize companies?

Sam: Yeah, no, it's definitely not an enterprise specific problem. And in any way, it just happens to be pretty acute. And I think the call was called like the lead waste, right? Like the number of leads that come in, that are then just wasted in enterprise companies is more noticeable because they generally have more interest and inquiry. But it's the same with a small business and it's actually much more important in a small and medium sized business drawing. That's kind of a huge range, especially here in the US, you know, it's classified as a small business. But the bottom line is like, if you could follow up with me be one of the leads that come in. And you don't have to hire more people to make that part of your business scale. Then all the effort that you do for marketing and getting interest, which is probably the hardest thing anybody can do in business, right? It's like getting interest in their business, getting that awareness within your, you're going to increase the efficiency, or like the effectiveness, you know, the percentage rate of people who are going to become customers, by following up, I don't care what you do, it can be the most basic follow up, you can get very sophisticated, you can branch logic of if they do this, if they do that, but at the end of the day, if you follow up versus not for a longer period of time, and educate people and remind them that you're there, see, if they still have the problem that your product solves. You're going to win more business, no matter what kind of business you are. So it's not universal. It's an it's not specific to enterprise. It just happens to be enterprises. You know, it's a fun place this space to play in because they spend more money to solve the problem. But it's a it's not specific. It's actually I think, a lot of times easier to implement these solutions for a little bit smaller business, because there's less politics involved in a, they tend not to overcomplicate it, because they just want the result faster, because it's it's a little more pressing need.

Mike: Brilliant. I think this leads on to the next question is, if someone engages with mobile pocket office and starts talking to you about a solution, I mean, do you have a process? Do you have an approach? I mean, how do you go about fixing these issues?

Sam: Yeah, and we do, we do have a process and approach because without it, you're kind of like willy nilly all over the place. And what we found, and what we've done, you know, is was adapting our processes as well. But let me give you kind of the framework of how we think about this with people because it's something that people can, can, you know, you technically don't need us to go use this framework, right? We help catalyse that process, we have experience across industries. So we pull that experience into the experience to, you know, cuz you don't know what you don't know, in terms of what's going on. But there what, which you can find out is, where do you have opportunities for automation, right, we talked about that specific conversion phase of sales, leads to sales, but I'm going to give you the full picture because it's what we do with people as we, we say, Okay, if you want to automate things, and you feel like you can benefit from that you've somehow gotten this idea, you know, you want to follow up more whatever it may be. The first thing we're going to do is we're going to look at your your business, right, okay, there's, there's five pillars, any business doesn't matter size industry scale, everybody's got them, some are done better, some are done worse. You got to attract new business, right? That's that marketing work of generating interest, you got to convert that interest. So that's the Convert states attract, convert into leads in sales. And then you've got to fulfil whatever you promised. Then the good businesses delight their customers by offering ways to use the product better, keeping up with it, giving them new opportunities to buy more from them that benefit what they've, you know, complement what they've already bought, and help them as a customer. And then we're referrals. So those are the five pillars attract, convert, fulfil delight, refer you with me.

Mike: That's that sounds great. It sounds I mean, somewhat reminiscent of the HubSpot model. I don't know if you're familiar with that.

Sam: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so you'll see it across a lot of these different tools, right? They talk about it in these kind of pillar ideas. It's like buckets. And it's a great way to think about it. And so we really, really, yeah, it's common to see it, and it's for a good reason. Because then in those buckets, you look at those and you go, what are my processes within these sections of the system of our business, right? What do we actually do within these? And that's where it starts to break down. People get that picture, they go, yeah, we know, we attract, convert, fulfil, maybe we delight, we get some referrals, or like, maybe we have a process for referrals, where we consistently ask systematically, but where people get stuck at that point is, where do they How do they find out what their processes are today? And how do they figure out of those processes, which should be automated. And let me lead you down that path. Because this is what we do with folks.

The first thing is, we funny thing is like we do this digital automation, and we implement it, but we take this very analogue approach. We have everybody print off a spreadsheet for three days worth of 15 minute intervals. And so just for three days, you give everybody on the team and you can do this in smaller chunks to like, if you're just working with the marketing and sales team, then you You know you're working with you're attracting convert, not your fulfilment as much. And so you give them this spreadsheet, you say, okay, whatever to do just fill out what do you do every, every 15 minutes, make a note of what you've done throughout the day for three days. And you have to position it that like, we're not going to use this to say you're not productive. It's just to understand what processes you do throughout the day, what constitutes the work of your business, right? what actually makes up your time, and now you have a pattern. And some people need to do it a little bit longer. Maybe you need to do four or five days or like you have cycles, you know, you came back from a trade show, what do you do after that type of deal with Coronavirus? Those are largely like not a thing as much, but you just look at what do you do. And now that you've documented that, and we call it a personal activity log pals sheet, just a name we've assigned to it. And now that you've documented that, now you understand your process within the system, right? And you may need to do that, like I said, in different phases of the business year, stuff like that. But you'll understand, okay, here's the busy work, like I'm moving this information from here to here, I'm sending an email to this interested prospect, blah, blah, blah. Now you have your process. And two things come out of that. One is of that what is effective today? what works, what gets you new business? Right? If we're looking at those top two stages, once you start to understand what works, those are things that you should start to look at and go, okay, that works. How much time does it take me? to do that? And of it, what can I automate. And then that's that. And only at that point is when we start looking at the technology tools involved to make the automation happen.

Right, we're trying to design the house first, so to speak, and then get the appropriate tools to build it versus finding tools and then building a house. So once you understand your process, now you know what you can automate. And then you also see, this is where it's hard to do, or it can be hard to do without someone else who's seen it across different industries is is where the gaps, holes and opportunities to improve the process make it more robust. You know, in this case, we talk a lot about the follow up longer make it branch so that the logic makes more sense for different customer segments and driving that using data. And also turning it off at the appropriate time so that people are getting communication when they shouldn't be. And then you can do that for each segments of your business. That attract, convert, fulfil, delight, and refer. And so if we start there, if we get that going, Well, we increase your conversions. Well, of course, then, you know, you've got a fulfilment issue that you have to deal with, because you've got increased fulfilment that you have to do. And then the light and refer those all kind of go together. But that is literally the step. So you look at that. And then we use a digital tool called diagrams, that net, I think, the name changed recently, I have to find it, but to actually map out what you do after you've documented that process, and that's actually like a call that we have. And now there's a really clear picture of what goes on to run the business. And at that point, also, you get this benefit, that it's easier to train somebody new, because you just documented how the business runs. And then you start to put numbers to the value of automation. There's two opportunities for automation.

One is, and they both help you scale, but one is one that saves money, right? Where are there holes in your process where you're leaking money, because you're, you're paying more people to move information around from one system to another, right? That's a leak, that's money you can save. So automation can save you money in that way. And allow you to scale and free up humans to do more creative work more interesting work. And you know, occasionally people lose a job. That's the unfortunate nature of it. But like most humans want to do interesting work. They don't want to do repetitive stuff. And so, given give somebody that opportunity, they're probably going to flourish, be more excited about their work all that. So that's just a side benefit. But the other is where can you make more money, right? How can you be more profitable, because you're not communicating, you're not capturing people's attention, and converting that to a sale. And so those are the two big things. So they all relate to scaling, but one is saving money. One is making more money. And then on the you can ask some questions after this, but like on the saving money side, that was pretty easy. You know, how much time are we spending doing this on a weekly or monthly basis? Whatever the timeline is that makes sense for the process. And, you know, what do we pay for for this to get done? What is the person who's doing this? What's their time? build that? What do we what do we pay them at and if we automate And we pay for it once with an automation tool to get it built out, or we built it out, you know, then you can do some basic math and understand the savings.

Mike: So it's interesting, you seem to be looking at it from both sides of that return on investment equation, you know, both reducing the amount of money you have to invest to implement a process, and also increasing the return by making it more efficient.

Sam: Yep, exactly. And so, you know, the basic idea we can think about this is like, on the saving money side, someone who's doing administrative tasks that are required to make a business run, if the majority of their tasks can be automated, and you pay them anywhere between, you know, let's say, $50,000, a year, or something like that, right. And all the health care that's involved in all that, and like, generally, that person is also doing other stuff. Most of the time, they don't just do rote admin work. In fact, the majority of the time, what we see is like, that person is overwhelmed with stuff to do. And so if you can free that up, then they're gonna be more focused on the more on the higher value items. But at the same time, you can think about it like, well, if we invested that same amount once to build out the automation that we don't have, and the automation never takes a holiday, and never gets sick, and all those things about automation that you know, where computers are different than humans, then you've invested at once versus having to hire maybe another person or that person to do those things year after year, inconsistently, most of the time.

Mike: So that's, that's fascinating. I mean, I guess one of the push backs, you hear against automation, is that it creates inflexibility, once you've coded that automation, you can't change the process. Is that something you hear from clients? And what's your response?

Sam: I'm glad you brought that up. Because I actually, we, you know, we don't hear that because we take people down a different path, but it is, it is a problem. And here's how you address it. And we live in a day and age where the tools are not what's so fat, fantastic, right? They are fantastic in what they do. But they it's it's the strategy around it, that's more important. So if ever we see somebody going down the path of trying to custom code, something where it's fairly inflexible, and it's not relatively easy to modify, we, we try and hit breaks, and stop them because we live in an age where the tools are so the interfaces are so easy, you know, we do some custom coding with folks. But largely, it's the strategy around automation, the value that it provides to the business, that's that's the real magic, and like, tweaking it till it's better and better. And I can talk a bit about that. But the main thing is that, you know, kind of like my, my public service announcement is don't code anything that you don't have to use drag and drop builders use these easy to use tools, they're out there, you know, when you have to code stuff you do, but the ecosystem of tools is so strong nowadays, that you should be able to use a tool that's with a few clicks, allows you to modify the process versus lines of code. And so the the end of the day, like done well, we turn the systems over to our clients, and give them methodologies to improve the systems so that they can track the effectiveness of it. And then what I love to see is like you have at least one or two smart people on the team who are smart in the realm of these tools. And they're going to they're going to be able to make those tweaks internally. And you know, typically what happens, we sometimes will do it for folks, but we just guide them on the strategy and help them make decisions. Once the big implementation has been put in place, the infrastructure is there.

First, that's great. I think that you know, I mean, like, you shouldn't be coding. Now. Anybody who's like who's writing code is like, you should be writing code. If you're building a new system for somebody that is like, then you're going to sell them a bunch of people. But if you're just using a system, trying to automate some things, unless you've got a super complex situation that just can't handle it. And maybe you need something custom, but the reality is like on the sales conversion side, you're probably not going to run into you're going to run into unique things and you might have to adapt a little bit but like, you should be able to adapt around and use the tools that exist today. fulfillments a different story. You know, fulfilment gets kind of a more custom experience a lot of the times but fulfilment stays less flu is less changing. You know, if you have a product or service you can usually you're you're pretty happy to invest in the fulfilment automation, because you know how that works is consistent, but what you want to tweak is you want to tweak that, that experience in the, in the, in the attract and convert stages for sure. So yeah, don't be coding, use your use use the, like, easy to use tools. And how you got to set up you got to think about how you set them up right there. That's the deal, right? Because like, you can buy a Salesforce, you can buy a marketer, you can buy an ontraport, you can buy whatever these tools are by HubSpot. But if you set it up, like pilot junk, you know, and don't utilise it, well, that's where you're going to go, Oh, this thing doesn't really do what it's promised. Right? It does do what it's promised. You just got to design it for your situation.

Mike: Absolutely makes sense. And I am interested, do you have some examples of you know, perhaps some customers you've helped and how you've helped them out? So you can perhaps explain a little bit as to what it feels like to work with you guys?

Sam: Yeah, absolutely. So one of the one of the customers are mentioned in the enterprise realm is gx Nippon. So they're your company people know. And they've got a bunch of different business lines. One of the one of their headquarter office here is in the, for one of their lines in the United States, in Georgia, actually. And they have a in this, we'll talk about one of the products, which is the people probably, do you guys know, Tyvek? Over there? Is that the siding of houses stuff? Like the waterproof membrane on the side of houses?

Mike: No, no, we don't.

Sam: But if you think about a building, right, you see a house being built, see that, like, when it goes up, there's like that plasticky looking stuff outside,

Mike: We'd call it a damp course over here in England, okay.

Sam: So you take that stuff, and that's one of the things they make, right, they make a version of that. You know, of course, they think it's superior and things like that. But that's besides the point. They have a team of salespeople that are going out to trade shows, they're reaching out to prospects, they're trying to find dealers, you know, we're working with larger accounts, and they had Sugar CRM, enterprise, people probably know that. So older CRM system, you know, pretty flexible, you can do what you want not not crazy, easy to use, like some of these newer ones, but it's a CRM system, right. And unfortunately, most of these tools just get used like CRM systems anyways, versus actual marketing automation and sales automation tools. But they would go out, they would meet people, this was in the time of trade shows, when we did this one, and the same can be said for anything virtual is just following up, they would go out, and they would get a list of prospects and people would become interested. And then they would only follow up with the hot prospects, and it was all scheduling via email, you know, very cumbersome, and they would take these business cards and import them in manually to some Excel spreadsheet, if they even did that. And then the rest of the business cards would live in a drawer on their desk when they got back from the event. So there's a lot of opportunity waste, right?

All these cards could be potential customers, but they're only following up with one or two hot prospects, because that was you know, how they meet your quota and help them reach their goals, and no automation around follow up. And so really basic, but but very effective example, in their case, was to start there at that aspect of it, which was understanding that helping them understand that they could, you know, automate pieces of that, where, hey, now you can just use your phone take picture of the business card, and this app, it pops it in to, you know, in their case, a tool like Sugar CRM. And that talked to another tool that could send some automated emails that could educate somebody with some videos and information on a, like 60 day sales cycle. So it span that whole gap of time with information about the product, right, so you never were forgetting about that person. And then each of the emails had an opportunity to schedule a call because they're still, you know, we didn't didn't take it to the extreme where they're buying online in their situation, they were still closing that deal and doing doing the custom deal on the phone.

But what they were doing is everything leading up to that closing call was able to be automated, where all the follow up was education based. It was bringing the customer into their world, and also the primary thing in their case, which is not forgetting about people, right. You met them at a trade show where he goes back and then a few days later everybody forgets about everybody they said their follow up with except for the you know, hot lead. And so now they had gone from one or two, you know, really interesting prospects per tradeshow. To following up with all the business cards, they got in They will increase the conversion ratio of people simply by maintaining in touch because that you know that their competitors were doing the same thing, trying to follow up a lot of cases manually. And then. So that's one step of the process and also took the burden we introduced calendar scheduling tool that allowed them to schedule those calls with people more effectively, more efficiently, less back and forth busy work of sales time. And so their effort could be focused on closing costs. The other side of that was understanding and their case, their relationship to customers and referrals, right? Where did referrals come from? How did they get referrals? When people refer them something? What What was the, what happened? Like, what was the process that was experienced? And based on that building process to remind them, when it was time to send an email, in their case, we kept it still kind of manual, about asking for a referral, right, which is at a certain stage in the journey. So you just delivered something the customer is happy, they've got what they want, you just find that that point where the biggest joy is in the customer's experience, right? Are they Something has just been fulfilled on a timeline.

That's when you need to ask for that referral. And so just by reminding and putting process in place to ask for referrals,they were able to increase their referrals quite a bit, because of process now being in place to remind them through some pieces of automation, hey, it's time to ask for a referral and bugging the salesperson to remind them, while they're in the middle of whatever hot lead, they're talking to, you know, closing deal making whatever that is at the enterprise level, which can, you know, it's it, that is something that can be part of the, you know, part of the process is making that deal and that can consume time. And so if we can automate everything else around that and remind the sales team, hey, you have an opportunity for a good referral, right? You've just, you've just, you're the fulfilment team has delivered the product, right, it arrived, everything's there happy, then now's the time to ask for that referral. And that's a natural way to increase business in an amazing way. And it's, you know, the marketing's effectively free for that next lead. So those are two examples out of that. Any, any questions that come out of that?

Mike: No, I mean, that's, that's absolutely fascinating. And I'm sure people listening would be, you know, really interested in talking to you and working out how it could be applied to their business. So I guess the question is, how would how would people get in contact with you if they'd like to follow up after listening genre podcast?

Sam: Yeah, well, that's the easiest way you go to mobile pocket office.com. And on the front page, we've got a big book now button, you can book a call. And that's a call with Josh, and myself. And then our team is, you know, we, we manage the implementations I, I primarily manage all the implementations once we've done the strategy work. And then we QA that, but we have a team that actually does the building of it. And so that way, we're freed up to do the things we like we talked about, which is to be on those on this calls, you know, prospecting and closing costs, to kind of eat our own dog food and that way. So it's real obvious on the site book. Now, you can book a call, it's got an automatic scheduler, and it books it all in our calendars, it puts it on your calendar. And it's it's really easy, you know, use automation to our benefit there.

Mike: So actually doing what you preach, which is great here. Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. Sam, it's been really interesting. It's certainly great to hear someone talk about how to use tools effectively, rather than just the features of tools. So I really appreciate your time on the, for the interview.

Sam: Thank you, I will leave people with one other thought just one thought and kind of wrap it up is don't try to make a lot of big changes all at once. It's hard, make a lot of small changes. And also that'll get especially in the enterprise world, that as people see those Quick Hits results. And it's easier, things are faster, they take less time. They're, they're more consistent. There'll be happier to do then the next thing and before you know it, you've covered a lot of ground.

Mike: Perfect. That's great advice. Thank you very much, Sam.

Sam: Thank you.

Mike: Thanks so much for listening to marketing b2b tech. We hope you enjoyed the episode. And if you did, please make sure you subscribe on iTunes, or on your favourite podcast application. If you'd like to know more, please visit our website at Napierb2b.com or contact me directly on LinkedIn.

Shock Your Potential Podcast Interview: Beware of Numbers

Mike, Managing Director at Napier, recently sat down with Michael Sherlock, CEO of Shock Your Potential to discuss how to truly analyze performance by looking past the initial 'numbers'. Mike shares 'Test, Refine, Test approach, and explains how this helps Napier clients truly gain traction that leads to profitability.

Listen to the full interview here, or via your favourite podcast app, and don’t hesitate to get in touch and let us know your thoughts.

Electronics Weekly Releases Advertising in a Crisis Whitepaper

Electronics Weekly has released an 'Advertising in Crisis' whitepaper which focusses on understanding whether advertising in a crisis is truly worthwhile. The whitepaper explores the impact on both immediate and longer-term companies' decisions to either cut, freeze or increase their marketing spend due to the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020, by analysing the performance of campaigns across numerous sectors.

The analysis provides some interesting results, finding that there was a significant impact on website performance when reducing marketing spend, as 'company A' chose to cut their advertising spend by 90% for the rest of the year. This resulted in seeing the number of total users being 84% less than in 2020 compared to 2019.

When comparing company A to company B, which chose not to reduce their advertising spend, Electronics Weekly has found that company B increased its market share in 2020; and whilst company A retained just over 16% market share, Company B soared over 80%.

The whitepaper reveals some intriguing results, presenting a clear correlation between reducing marketing spend and seeing an immediate impact on results. It's also interesting to see that the decision to reduce marketing spend can actually provide competitors with an advantage, which is why its vital to maintain momentum and visibility even during a crisis.

To read the full report for yourself, please click here. 


WEKA FACHMEDIEN Announces New Cluster Strategy and Structure

WEKA FACHMEDIEN has shared details of its new cluster strategy, which focuses on targeting specific market segments, with electronics, ICT and Automation clusters. This focus has introduced a leaner organizational structure, with the aim to offer B2B market partners in the electronics, ICT, and automaton industries with 'One face to the customer'.

The ICT cluster strategy was successfully implemented in 2019 with the sales team headed by Eric Weis, offering the relevant channels in the ICT business network with ICT CHANNEL, funkschau, LANline and Smarthouse Pro.  Stefan Adelmann has taken over the position of Director Content ICT, whilst Dr Jörg Schröper continues as Editor-in-Chief of LANline, driving digital formats and events such as Tech Forums and Datacenter Symposia.

The newly created Electronics cluster has Christian Stadler leading the sales team as Sales Director, reporting directly to Marc Adelberg, Director of New Business. This move now means advertisers and industry partners can reach the readers and users of Markt&Technik, Elektronik, DESIGN&ELEKTRONIK, Elektronik automotive, medical design, SmarterWorld and the business network elektroniknet.de with their market communications via just one contact. In this new organizational structure, the core teams consist of Editor-In-Chief and Managing Editor, with Joachim Kroll taking on the role of Editor-in-Chief of Elektronik and Elektronik automotive, in addition to heading DESIGN&ELEKTRONIK; whilst the new position of Director of Content Electronics will be held by Dr. Ingo Kuss, who will also continue as Editor-in-Chief of Markt&Technik.

In the Automation clutter, Tiffany Dinges takes the position of Sales Director, while Andrea Gillhuber will continue as Editor-in-Chief of Computer&AUTOMATION. The "One Face to the Customer" strategy provides advertisers and industry partners with quick access to contacts for print/e-paper, digital platforms, events and virtual exhibitions of the media brands.

We heard rumblings of several editorial layoffs at WEKA last month, and this move to a new structure means we have had to say goodbye to editors such as Frank Riemenschneider, Gerhard Stelzer, Manne Kreuzer and Hagen Lang. It will be interesting to see what further structure changes will be implemented across the WEKA GROUP moving forward and how this will affect the streamlining of any other editorial teams.

A Napier Podcast: Interview with Steve Zakur - Solosegment

We are delighted to share the latest interview from Napier’s Marketing B2B Technology Podcast.

In our latest episode, we interview Steve Zakur, CEO & Co-Founder of Solosegment, which provides software that drives engagement and leads with anonymous data and AI.

Find out more about Solosegment and the meaning behind anonymous personalization, by listening to the episode here. 

To stay up to date when a new episode is live, click one of the below links to subscribe:

Transcript: Interview with Steve Zakur - Solosegment

Speakers: Mike Maynard, Steve Zakur

Mike: Thanks for listening to marketing b2b tech, the podcast from Napier, where you can find out what really works in b2b marketing today. Welcome to the latest edition of marketing b2b technology from Napier. Today, I've got Steve zaika from solo segment. Welcome to the podcast, Steve.

Steve: Thanks very much, Mike.

Mike: Thanks, Steve. So, you co-founded Solosegment, can you tell me about your career journey? And how you got to the point where you decided to found the company?

Steve: Yeah, absolutely. So I've been kind of a technology person by trade for a long time, although I've never written a line of code. You know, I've often been that person who is at the interface of Business and Technology, whether it was back in the days when I worked in finance, I moved into operations. And then in the late 90s, kind of caught the startup bug, I really was excited about the opportunity, especially the way the internet right at that time, was really changing and transforming how business was done and worked for a startup for about two years. And like many startups, that went when essentially nowhere, but I had the good fortune of getting hired by IBM at that point, because this was now late 2000, early 2001. And they were, you know, hoovering up all of these, anybody who could spell.com they wanted to hire and so had the good fortune to get hired at IBM, and then spent 15 years there, in a variety of executive roles, primarily focused on what I like to refer to as fixing broken toys, a lot of work, you know, looking at products, projects, customer relationships that have kind of gone awry, and helping us to write those.

And last couple of years that I was with IBM, I was working in there, I was responsible for their sales and marketing technology. And it was a pretty hefty responsibility. And of course, being an executive, your job is to take the pain that other executives throw at you. So it really gave me a keen sense for, you know, what were the gaps and opportunities, especially with regards to marketing technology. And early in 2016, I was at our Astor Place location, and I was walking through the halls, and I ran into Mike Moran, and Mike, who was one of the cofounders solo segment. He was the guy who hired me went back in November of 2000. And into IBM, we had lost track for about 15 years. And, you know, literally, he was back doing some consulting, we had a chat by the elevator and said, let's have a beer because I've got this idea. And that idea was soul segment, you know, did he had just gotten started with some development of software that that helped improve website search. But it really was that was the starting point. And, you know, a lot of our early conversations before I joined him, were very much focused on this gap, right? This this where the, you know, marketing executives, you know, weren't getting often the value they could out of the existing technology, and how could we bridge that. And so, you know, my journey to solo segment now spending four years building solo segment and from, you know, I guess what you classically think of as a startup into an actual business that operates is, was really focusing on that those gaps that we saw. And honestly, you know, of course, like any good company listening to, you know, your customers and finding, you know, the nuances and the pain so that you can make sure you're addressing what's important to them.

Mike: Amazing. And is the founding team. Are they still with the company?

Steve: Yep, they sure are. Yeah, Tim Peters, the third member of the founding team, Tim is our marketing leader. He's, he's a marketing technology person, as well, has a lot of experience in financial services, hospitality and into the tech industry as well.

Mike: Wow. So you've got the classic sort of CO marketing and technical trio family company. That's cool.

Steve: Yeah, it was. And honestly, that's one of the things that drew me there. I mean, you know, I know that, you know, from my prior experience, you know, that early team is really important in not only the vision, but you know, it's very easy for individuals to make to go astray. But when you have a solid team that you really, that keeps you honest and keeps you focused on the customer value, it's very helpful, but more than anything, you know, we fill each other's blind spots, right. And that really was the benefit. The early benefit was, you know, we all had very unique but distinct points of view on the business opportunity.

Mike: Amazing. I think I've got a blind spot that I need filling so. So the segment describes itself as anonymous personalization. Can you can you just unpack that and explain what you mean by it?

Steve: Yeah, you bet. So I mean, traditional personalization. I mean, it's in the name, right. You know, it's all about understanding something about the person. And so when you look at how personalization technology emerged, and again, this rewinds all the way back to the late 90s. And especially when you think about what Amazon was doing early on, you know, really under Standing patterns and behaviour. And there were lots of other companies that did as well. But Amazon, of course, is an exemplar in many ways. In the consumer space. You know, a lot of effort was put into understanding data about the people. And as marketing technology and marketing processes, embraced digital, almost everything we do focused on the person, everything from how the technology identifies people to cookies related to computers, which are related to people, logins. Now that data gets that first party data get sold as third party data.

So basically, you can buy information about anybody on the planet, that that root of the personal data in personalization is deeply, deeply embedded in how we think about web engagement, right, it's knowing something about you. And then using that information, to help you engage with social conversations that might interest to you to help you find products that might be interesting to you. In the b2b space, it's a little bit different, the challenges were a little bit different. When you look at the profile of a visitor to a b2b website, a very small portion of them are actually identifiable three to 5%. So why is 90 95% of the traffic on identifiable for a variety of reasons. First, often what you're doing at work doesn't relate to what you do in your personal computer, although in COVID, land, right, you know, everything is the same. But but in kind of a traditional view of things, you know, what you're doing in your personal life, or what you're doing your business life are very distinct. So there's not that data trail, that kind of translates really well. So if I'm on Amazon in the morning, buying something, and then I go to work, and now I'm looking at, you know, software vendors website, there's not a lot of interesting data that translates to that. And that that's part of what the leads to that lack of interesting data that's available to b2b marketers. But the other thing, other reason that that that data is not often available is because of the incentives.

In my personal life and my consumer life, there are lots of incentives for me to share information. Part of it is that you know, some object appears on my doorstep when I order it. But the other incentives are, you know, this data is actually I mean, while there are bad actors and whatnot in the marketplace, it's largely being used for good, right, I'm finding the things I want, and being exposed to things that I didn't know I want, but actually suit me very, very well. Anybody who spent any time on YouTube, going down deep into holes on topics of interest knows this. But in the in the business world, the incentives are almost there, almost disincentives, quite frankly, to sharing your information. You're part of it is that, you know, if you do share your information to learn the process, you're going to get harassed by sales reps in an endless nurture campaign in your email inbox. But there's not a lot of trade for value, right? You know, getting a white paper, and then taking on the burden of these endless emails doesn't often seem like a fair trade for value. So prospects, visitors resist that. And that, really, at the core is the challenges. Why anonymous personalization because what anonymous personalization is all about is creating engaging moments without having to know oh, this is Mike. And he's been to this website five times in the past, and he's done these certain activities. It's really in the moment, can you create an engaging experience, based upon not specific data about the person, but general data about the behaviour. And that's what we like to think about as anonymous personalization, engaging experiences that don't require personal knowledge of the person, primarily, because in b2b, it's very hard to get that data. And so why struggle to try and get the data, why not just accept and embrace what you already have, which is nothing and use that anonymous data to create those engaging experiences.

Mike: Interesting. So I mean, just explained to me a little more about what that means. So you're looking at the behaviour, just on one website, and then personalising based on that. So how does it work?

Steve: Yeah, so we have technologies and some of its kind of traditional predictive analytics, there are some machine learning as well as some natural language processing components to it as well. And we're looking at primarily behavioural data. So the two places the behavioural data that we find most interesting are first intent data that you can get out of out of a website's search engine. So while not a lot of people search on b2b websites, those who do give you some interesting information about content and the relationship with content to intent, like what they're interested in, and why they're interested in it. And once you understand that, you can then almost reverse it, right? And so for any piece of content, you know, what its intent is. And so that's the first piece of data that we look at is intent data on the website so that we know when somebody is on a page, you know, we can make a prediction That's if that's the fancy word for in machine learning for a guess, you know, we can make a prediction about what the odds are that somebody has a certain intent for a certain piece of content. And as you might imagine, that, you know, varies by content from content to content. But the other behavioural data we look at is just all of the visitor journeys that have gone on on the website, right, people start in one place, they end in another. And what we're looking for, especially in the longer journeys, the 2345 page journeys, is we're looking for journeys that, you know, lead to some sort of goal achievement. And by understanding those patterns, we can begin to gather with that intent data to, to make some guesses about when you're on a page, what, why you might be there, and what piece of content you might want to see next, right based upon the pattern analysis that the machine is doing. And of course, every time you give the machine some information, the machine makes better predictions going forward. And there's a third piece of data, of course, which is the content itself, we have a natural language processing technology that looks at content, and tries to understand what it's about what his topic is, what industry it might be about, you can imagine a lot of other things that we can discern.

And so when somebody comes to a website, you know, we're immediately the models are immediately running, they're looking at what the person is looking at, looking at how they're looking at it, right, their scroll depth, how they're interacting with the page, but and they're making these predictions of two things, right, based upon the intent based upon the content based upon all the journeys that are similar to this one. What might you be trying to achieve? And what piece of content might you need to see next in order to progress towards that goal?

Mike: And that helps. So I mean, it sounds like there's lots of elements of it, if I look on your website, you've got, you know, effectively four key products identified, can you explain how they work together to produce a solution?

Steve: The are independent, or they can be used independently, they all share a common platform. You know, we're, we sell two products, search box and guide box, they're kind of our two primary products, mostly, because that's how our customers think about web interaction, it's kind of interesting, you know, we we separate searching and behaviour from navigating behaviour. And there's even variations of navigating behaviour, right, we have navigation behaviour, where people are responding to, to campaigns versus navigation behaviour, maybe they're coming in through organic search, or they're just typing a URL coming direct. So there's lots of different types of behaviours. But when you think about how our customers think about the world, often they think about the website in those two areas, right? We have searchers, and we have navigators. And so that's why search box and guide box were delivered, but they all share this common platform. And that is, you know, looking at the behaviours of people on the website, and using data to automatically drive improvement. So let's talk for a moment about searching behaviour. In searching behaviour, you know, one of the key challenges is a and you would think one of the key inputs in the search engines, even though it's not, would be, hey, when somebody has a successful behaviour on a search, we should, you know, take that data and do something with it. And that doesn't often happen, right? A lot of how search engines work are based upon how good the content is. But it very rarely looks at the behaviours after the content. So that's what's unique about search box. And honestly, that's where a lot of our intent data comes from, is we're looking deeply at not only what did somebody search for, and what did somebody click on, but we're looking at the behaviours after the click to really discern, was this a successful interaction or an unsuccessful interaction? And that not only gives us data about searcher success, which you can then feed back to the search engine to give it some, you know, information about which links are the better answers versus which links are the worst answers. But more importantly, that then becomes a data set, were we really understand on a specific company's website? You know, how good is search? And, and are those searchers based upon again, coming back to intent what they intended to achieve achieving that thing?

Mike: Interesting. So you're, you're looking at what people search for, and then you're trying to use that to almost assess the value of different content in different situations? Is that how it's working?

Steve: Yeah, I mean, that's a good way of thinking about it. You know, the search engines are always trying to programmatically evaluate content and discern, you know, what it's about. And that, of course, once this once the search engine knows what it's about, you know, through a variety of techniques that are, you know, very mathematically driven, so I won't go into them too much. But most search engines work that right, right? They look at content, that's called indexing, right? They gather all the content, and then they evaluate that content to try to figure out what it's about. And we take that whole thing the next step further, which is to say, Okay, great, the search engines done that evaluation. It's figured out what this content is about. But now let's add the user feedback into it. Right, let's add customer experience back into it. And it's not just the customer experience while they're on the search engine results page, but it's really the experience after they leave the search engine results page after they make that click and start their journey. You know, was that journey actually successful or not?

Mike: Interesting. And in terms of working this out? I mean, I think you said the AI guesses. I'm sure it's a lot more complicated than that. I mean, can you explain what AI gives you that you couldn't get from something that's more of a programmatic formula type approach?

Steve: Yeah. So, you know, thinking about AI, is one of the ways I like to think about it. And I think it helps marketers think about it is kind of the traditional ways of doing, as you said, programmatic sort of solutions to this problem is very similar to a b testing, right? So you come up with an A and a B ad, and you run them and you see which one performs better. And then you start, you know, the machine would automatically say, you know, what B's doing a lot better, let's promote B. And so that's kind of a traditional way of thinking about those, you have you posit two hypotheses, and you test them, what machine learning allows you to do is to not have to come up with the hypothesis, right? You don't have to come up with the A and the B, you actually come up with a goal, right? So you define, I want more leads. And what the machine is going to do is it's going to come up with the A and the B and the C and the D. And it's just going to constantly try to optimise on that goal versus optimising the two choices you have given it. And so it the same way, when you think about all this journey analytics that goes on, we're compiling all of this information about people and their interactions with a website on a continuous basis.

Now, some of those interactions are very small, right, somebody responds to a campaign and leaves the site a one page visit a bounce. Sometimes they're very short, you know, you look at a lot of these companies. And they are their goal is to get two pages per visit on average, right? So they're very short interactions. But when you can look at the longer interactions, you just have so many of them, that it's hard to, for a human to kind of discern the pattern and choose, you know, which of these two, two pathways are better, right, and the human defines the pathways. So instead, we just tell the machine, you know, we want more downloads, we want more contact forms, we want more whatever. And now the machine knows that those sorts of events are the goals. And it's going to look for the patterns that that lead to the goals. And over time, as somebody comes to the website, it will recognise when somebody is on one of those patterns. And it could be as simple as G everybody who starts on this page, who happens to land on this page has an 80% likelihood that they're going that they're shooting for the contact form, let me nudge this person forward, to try to get him to the contact form, right. So it's that's the kind of predictions that the machines working on. But the the real difference between programmatic ways and machine learning ways is in machine learning, you define the goal. And once you've defined the goal, the machine can figure out the optimal ways towards achieving the goal versus having to draw, you know, for a human to actually have to figure out, well, here's the five ways to the goal, we're going to test let's just figure out which of my five ideas is best.

Mike: Interesting. So, I mean, how does a user use seller segment? It sounds like, you know, there might be this incredibly complicated set up before suddenly the magic happens it? Is it tough, or is it straightforward?

Steve: It's relatively straightforward. I'll say that. And, you know, we're working every day to kind of make it more straightforward. You know, certainly, when, when I was in my role at IBM, you know, one of the deep pain points that we had was time to value. You know, we were a large enterprise, when we bought large enterprise software was often complex to implement. It was often and part of that was by design, by the way, right? Because it's, it's far easier to retain a software, you know, retain an account if you're a software vendor, if it's hard to unplug you. So I think some of that complexity was by design, but but you know, required integrations with systems that, you know, we had, whether it was integrating to the CRM system or fulfilment systems. And so is the time to value was was, you know, one of the biggest struggles that you'd be a year into a contract and you're just getting the most basic function sort of deployed.

And I think that's where, you know, where I started in my role there, you know, getting involved in a lot of what I would refer to as best in class vendors, right, these smaller vendors who were far more agile, their price points were a lot more appealing. Yeah. And, you know, often they didn't require the complexity that that these larger kind of more traditional vendors required. And so that was really our goal, when we were thinking about what type of company do we want to be, you know, we started off with this idea that we don't want to be a company that makes it really hard to manage the data. And that was part of our, you know, focus on anonymous data versus personal data. But the other thing was, you know, we want to make it easy to get started. And so I mean, search box is the easiest product to get started with, because, you know, it gathers all the data via JavaScript, you put a couple of lines of code on the page. And it just begins to, to gather data about what's going on in search and what's going on after search. And that was our first product, by the way. And so that design decision where we said, we're not going to integrate with the technology that our customer uses, whether it's their web analytics, or their search engine, we're going to use JavaScript to capture the data ourselves, that now kind of pervades everything we do, right? What can we do with the JavaScript to make it easier for our customers to adopt, and honestly make it easier for us to get them to value, right that you know, to speed the time to value. So JavaScript is a way that we gather a lot of data, much like any analytics programme does. And we also the second way we gather data is we searched the website like a search engine would so we can index all the content and apply our NLP against those indexes that we created all the content, but we try to make it as easy as possible. And again, having been in large enterprise marketing tech, I get the pain point and the time to value problem. And so that's part of our goal.

Mike: But it sounds like you can load that JavaScript things start happening immediately. And then you obviously need to presumably give some idea of what a conversion is, whether it's a form fill or something, is it is that right?

Steve: Yes and no. So the general processes that JavaScript gets installed, and for some companies, and by the way, some people think when I give these examples, oh, he's talking about the small company had an easy time and a big company had a hard time, it actually doesn't matter on company size, it's often just, you know, the where the Paranoid dial is set out, some some companies said at 11, break it and some companies set it up for but you know, getting that JavaScript deployed, you know, is usually a couple of weeks just because these large companies have processes that they want to go through to, you know, test them and put it on board. And then we usually need some baseline set of data to get both search box and guide box to work. Because all of these learning technologies, you know, just they work they need to learn, right, they need some data set to learn. And while the holy grail is some general model that will work across all businesses in all industries, the reality is it has to learn on the behaviours of each of our clients. So that usually takes about 30 days. And again, it depends on the size of the client and the volume of data. But most of our, our clients are dealing with 10s of 1000s of pages of content and hundreds of 1000s of visits a month. And so we pretty pretty quickly gather enough data, enough head of steam, if you will, enough learning that the models are working within 30 days or so and and that's when the comp plan can begin to really get value from them. Where where the client has some work to do, of course, is getting through all of their processes to deploy, deploy the code, and that they have to make some choices, some of our technology appears on the glass, right that we deliver some sort of user experience. And so they have to decide, you know, share with us their design, standards and whatnot. So we make sure that it looks like something that comes from that company. But you know, again, our goal is always to kind of lower the barrier to getting started, lower the barriers, time to value.

Mike: And it sounds like you're also giving a little bit of consultancy in terms of helping the customer is that right? I mean, it sounds like you're not a classic SAS vendor that you sign up online, and you're on your own.

Steve: Yeah, I mean, you know, we had intended to be that SAS vendor, you know, that was already dead. And by the way, experiences, again, in my career, you know, these large enterprises, they are, they can be high touch. So, you know, they, you know, when I think about all of our client relationships, you know, I know most of my clients, but, you know, we're, you know, I try to make sure that I'm speaking to them fairly frequently. But they're, I mean, the nature of their businesses is they're large and complex. And so, because we have a point of view on, on not only our area of expertise, which is in digital engagement, personalization, sort of technologies, but on how those technologies integrate with the entire marketing processes, you know, you bet our customer success, people definitely, you know, chat with our clients about broader issues. And in some cases, we do some consulting, where they ask us to go deeper than honestly a software vendor might normally but where we have some expertise, we definitely do that.

I mean, I never want to turn away a client who, who we can help extract value, but our core really is, you know, how do we make help the software drive value? Because at the end of the day, you know, my frustration, as an executive was always that, you know, I'd get the PowerPoint and you know, it'd be 102 pages of insight. But how do I then execute that? Right? It's really hard to do so. And what we're we want to focus on is how do we use data to automatically drive improvement, whether that's data that's automatically improving the search experience, or whether it's data automatically helping navigators. But there is far too much content, there are far too many visitors. And there's far too few resources, whether it's money, or people within these origin enterprises to do anything manually. And so, you know, it's funny, we have a dashboard for all our products that shows the value, etc, etc. And our clients rarely use them. And so we knew that like, that was an early feedback point. You know, we knew that sharing data was not the most important thing, right? using that data, in a way to automatically make things better, was a lot better than sharing a dashboard, which gives some overworked marketer more work to do.

Mike: I mean, trade, I mean, obviously, as a company, you're really focused on value. And I guess one of the ways of measuring value is, is in terms of number of leads and cost per lead? Is that the primary way people measure or are there other ways that people look at value from the product?

Steve: Yeah, I think that the folks that, you know, that's those are certainly Top of Mind measures for all of our clients, you know, they are under pressure to deliver mq ELLs, right. That is the that is the ultimate the ultimate point of the exercise. You know, of course, when we're one piece of an integrated stack, in a very complex business, it's hard to do attribution, right, that is the Achilles heel of everything that marketers do, and quite frankly, the marketing technology companies do. So, you know, what we're looking at is well, what are the metrics that lead up to an M qL, that we can contribute to in some meaningful way and measure from an attribution perspective very specifically? So certainly, we're looking at, you know, a lot of those leading metrics, right. So are we getting more engagement and engagement is a fairly complex algorithm, but it basically means are more people staying on the site? are they seeing more content? Are they progressing more towards their goals? Right, so those are, that's our viewpoint is we want to increase the level of engagement with content on the website, where we can measure those goals. And we tend to refer to them as events because I think goal has a very specific meaning, right? A goal is something that a marketer has defined as the point of a campaign, say, or product manager is defined as the on this page, when somebody gets to it, they're going to take this specific action.

One of the things we do when we evaluate the content automatically on our website, is we look for places where people can do stuff, right. So it could be if you had, say, a commerce element, two of our clients have a relatively small portion of commerce on their website, but they have carts and they have checkouts and those sorts of things. So we look for those sorts of events. But the other things that are more common are events, like, you know, download the white paper, or fill out the contact form, or those sorts of things. And so what we're looking for is signals that indicate that one of those events have taken place. And that of course, you know, once we see a signal that an event has taken place, we're then going to try to drive more people who fit that pattern towards that event. But that's really our goal. So as opposed to leads, I think the most thing you the thing you could most likely attribute our technology towards driving is probably contacts, right that people are actually taking some of those events or and sharing their information. So that now there, they can fall into quite frankly, a personalised experience. Right. So now they can fall into a technology which will nurture them with an email campaign or will, you know, prompt a sales rep to make a call?

Mike: Brilliant, nice. That's really clear. And you said earlier, you're talking about, you know, typically having hundreds of 1000s of visits for a typical customer? I mean, can you talk to me about you know, who benefits the most from using solely segment?

Steve: Yeah, so these are generally companies that are kind of later to the digital game, I think that there are a fair amount of companies very mature companies digitally mature, by the way, you know, it's funny how interesting, you know, a company size almost is not a predictor of digital maturity. But it's somewhat related, but not highly related. But, you know, we're talking to a lot of companies who are a little bit later to the digital game, right, that they're, they, you know, didn't get involved early, but they're looking to advance quickly. And, you know, I think one of the frustrations that these companies often face is that you know, they go to some of these law Large integrated vendors. And, you know, they're faced with, you know, six figure seven figure licence fees. And, you know, equally six, figure seven figure integration, installation fees. And of course, you know, months and months to value. And so, so these so these companies that are coming a little bit later to the game, they see that they're a little intimidated, and now they want to think, well, how can I get started without having to take that huge bite.

So those are companies that are very good for us as well, we deal with some large manufacturing companies, some large chemical companies, medical device manufacturers have been very popular now in COVID. But as these companies who are a little bit late to the game and want to accelerate are very good. And generally, the folks we're talking to are, you know, the people who are really at the, at the tip of the spear, you know, all CEOs with their, you know, favourite, you know, people like be right, I want to go talk to the CMO and I want to have a great relationship. But, you know, at the end of the day, the CMOS don't feel the pain as acutely as, say, a senior manager or director of marketing, right, they are, they live where the pain is. And so, you know, we have a lot of conversations with those folks who are wrestling with, you know, yield on their marketing campaigns with, with, you know, just, you know, engagement on the website, you know, they've got a 80% bounce rate, and, you know, every page has a 90% exit rate, you know, so they're, they're really dealing with, you know, trying to create engagement connection with their clients. But we're fairly industry agnostic, but it's really, you know, helping to talk to the folks who really, you know, are at the tip of the spear with regards to the pain and the challenges that the business is facing.

Mike: That's interesting. So you're almost coming into people who are, you know, lagging behind and give them giving them a bit of a speed boost to catch up?

Steve: Yes.

Mike: And I'm interested in you talked about bounce rate, you know, people having 80% bounce rate, which I know, in on some sites is the case. So say the segment can really make a difference on that first page in terms of serving the right content, can it?

Steve: Yeah, you bet. You know, I think, and I don't think marketers Think about it this, but certainly lay people think about it like this, or people maybe who aren't marketers, but you know, fans, folks, and all those other people who exist in a corporation, you know, they always think about, somebody comes to our website, and they're coming to the homepage, and they're navigating around. And that's not the way it works at all right? A very small portion, everybody, most people come in sideways, what I like to think of is sideways, or they come in the back door, they come in the side door through the garage, because they're most often, you know, go into Google and doing a search. And, you know, they're landing on some random page on the website. And, you know, for a marketer, you know, we spend a lot of our time and attention on the high value stuff, right. So we spend a lot of time on campaigns, and campaign landing experiences, and, you know, increasing yields there, we spend a lot of time on our top products, we spend a lot of time on this homepage, because the CEO thinks it's important. And so we spend a lot of time on those experiences. And they account for a very, very small fraction of the total visits to the website.

And so, you know, part of the reason that, you know, we focused on this anonymous idea was also because there's so much of the content that's anonymous. When you think about, again, somebody's coming to the website on any random page. And then you draw a histogram that says, you know, lists all the web pages and how many visits they got this month, you know, there are probably 150 pages that got 90% of the traffic. And then there are 15,000 pages, they got two or three visits each. But each one of those visits was important to the person who found it. Now granted, a lot of people get to places that Google sends them that aren't very valuable. But again, whoever came into that page, they only got one or two page views a month, they had a purpose. And of course, nobody creates a bespoke experience on a page that gets one or two page views a month. And so, you know, part of our thought was, if we can provide the ability to somehow figure out somebody's on a page, where can we send them next? That helps you avoid that bounce helps you if that's their second page, avoid the exit, it gets you that continued engagement, right, get to another swing at the plate to use a you know, American baseball term, right? Yeah. So, you know, your swings at the plate are the kind of the things that you want, right? You don't want to strike out, you don't want to get out, right, you want to, you know, have a lot of opportunities as a, as a baseball manager to, you know, get people on the field. And so in the same way, as a marketing manager, you want the opportunity to somehow connect with this person. And so if they're coming to the site, and they're, you know, 80% of them are, you know, bouncing out, then you know, anything you can do to reduce that rate is critical. We had one client, who we've done a couple cases studies on this and really study that deeply. And one client in their first six months of having guide box on the page, they reduced their bounce rate by 12 points. And so, you know, it was a pretty significant opportunity for them to turn those one page visits into at least two page visits. And, you know, again, you know, we're all those successful, absolutely not, but would you like to double your opportunity to engage with somebody? You know, absolutely. Everybody wants that every day?

Mike: Oh, that's an amazing stat. And I think, you know, it's interesting, it sounds like you're almost learning about the visitor from the page they land on, because you're effectively inferring how they got there in terms of search is that, crudely speaking, how the AI is doing it?

Steve: It is, but and it's also inferring, you know, why they're there. And again, it's, you know, we've never really studied to say, you know, how often Is it right? You know, we don't do surveys of people to see if we got in their minds. But you know, but you can look at the data, right? And if you're giving somebody a very smart recommendation about, Oh, you like this content, you know, maybe you'd like to see this next. And that's one of the models that we use is it's kind of it's a content recommendation sort of thing, much like say Amazon does product recommendation, what we're trying to do is offer people really smart alternatives. I mean, when you look at any, any large enterprise, and pretty much any company's website, it's organised, like their organisation chart is organised, not how their customers think about their problems. And so you know, not only do they have many ways off the page, one of our clients we counted, they have 70 ways off their pages, because they show this huge menu. And there's this, you know, right side navigation bar, and there's a left side navigation is hugely confusing user experience. And again, you wouldn't do that for your best products. But there's a lot of other things on your website that you just don't have the time and energy to invest in. And so, with guide box, saying, Here's three options to progress your journey some way, would you like to choose one of these three things that seems really smart? You know, it's a way of creating that engagement that, you know, allows somebody to not be honestly intimidated by all the choice that's before them, and much of that choice being irrelevant to them?

Mike: Well, so the scope, I mean, you know, effectively seller segments, sat there, it's it's customising 10s, of 1000s of pages for hundreds of 1000s of visitors, I've got to ask this question, because I'm sure people listening are wondering, it's terrifyingly expensive, right?

Steve: Actually, it's not if you that is, I mean, that's one of the things that while I'd like to choose to charge people a lot of money and make make a lot of money. You know, it's actually it's pretty modest with regards to marketing technology spend, you know, you're spending, you're not spending millions of dollars. And most folks aren't even spending hundreds of 1000s of dollars right there. You know, it's relatively modest, and it scales honestly, to the size of the enterprise. So, you know, we have companies, and as small as sounds weird, but as small as $300 million, so in revenue, so so we can make the solution scales in a way that makes sense for, you know, most of the large enterprise companies that we deal with, you know, the the thing that we're also working on is a way to scale this down, because the models are driven by data. And so, so you need a fair amount of data, but we're looking at is some alternative algorithms that try to do the same predictions that we do a large enterprise and smaller Sharpe enterprises, but in fact, we have a beta of it running on our website, and I don't know how many pages of content we have, but not not 10s of 1000s, that's for sure. And, and so we're looking at ways to scale this down in a way that still creates that meaningful engagement. Because, you know, at the end of the day, you know, the marketer wants you on the site, they want you progressing towards some goal, they want swings at the plate. And so if we can do that, for companies, the scale of john deere, while at the same time doing it for companies, the scale of solo segment, we think there's that's a tremendous opportunity, we're not quite ready for primetime on that scaled down model. Because there's still some things that we have to figure out how to scale on the back end, because as you would imagine, what we did on our website was a little bespoke, but, you know, we're definitely, we're definitely looking at those models. Because, you know, there we, you know, think there's a great economic opportunity for us, and there's no reason it's just the big guys should get all the value from a, you know, better engagement.

Mike: Well, definitely let us know when you've got a product because I'm sure we'd love to have it on our website as well. That'd be great.

Steve: Sounds good.

Mike: I mean, it does sound amazing, you know, for the cost of, you know, probably two or three really good marketers, you can get this huge amount of personalization, that just would be impractical. If you were trying to do it manually. I mean, you know, I can certainly see the potential in terms of return on investment there. That's great.

Steve: Yeah, you bet. I think that's a great way to think about it. I mean, how many people would Do you have to add to get, you know, engagement on the long tail of people who are coming to your website?

Mike: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so you've given us a little hint about the future in terms of where you might go? Is there anything else that you feel we should cover? Any anything you'd like to talk about in terms of salary segments? Or something about the technology I've missed?

Steve: Yeah, no, I think I think part of it is, you know, one of the things I think we didn't talk about was a little bit more about, like, why is this the moment to be thinking about anonymous engagement. And, you know, anybody who's an advertising is now trying to figure out what to do now with the death of cookies is kind of the thing that's out there. But with the larger trend is is, you know, people are tired of their data getting stolen and misused. regulators have responded that, by that with GDPR, and the California acts and a lot of others that exist around the world. And, and now the software industry, most notably, the browser industry is acting to, you know, limit the amount of data that browsers will transmit to companies. And so this is, you know, most immediately, folks are freaked out, marketers are freaked out by the fact that ads, the ad business is going to change dramatically. You know, we all we heard Twitter and Facebook already talking about how their ad revenues are going to go down. Well, when ad revenues go down, that means advertisers have less opportunity to engage, right, because that's why they're going down. And so, you know, there are certainly some headwinds and significant headwinds, and I think they're only going to increase over the coming years, with how we're using personal information, and especially when you're a b2b marketer, you know, it's already harder to use personal information. And so, you know, to the extent that companies can they really should be starting to think about, you know, how do they create engaging visitor experiences using data other than personal data, because they're already starting at a deficit, right, they, you know, very small percentage of the visitors that come to these websites are engageable, that we can know something about them. And if it's only going to get more difficult, you know, kind of doubling down on a traditional personalization strategy just seems like folly, because, you know, the regulators aren't going to change the direction, Apple, Google and Firefox aren't going to change their direction. And so I think that the smart marketers are not only addressing kind of the current pain they're seeing, but they're actually starting to think more strategically about how are they going to operate effectively? How are they going to achieve their business objectives? deliver those mq ELLs deliver, you know, more contacts, in a world where personal information is going to be increasingly rare?

Mike: Wow, that's certainly a trend we're seeing. And I know, iOS, for example, a lot of people are freaking out over the privacy there. For for the advertising industry. So I think it's a great point. You know, it really is a time when people need to be thinking about what's next. And, and he gives this opportunity for really effective personalization. Without any kind of privacy issues. That's, that's cool.

Steve: Yeah, indeed.

Mike: So assuming we've got somebody listening who's you know, responsible for a website that's, you know, got several 100,000 visitors, or more a month? I mean, is there any way they can get in contact with you? You're the CEO of the company. I mean, yeah, I suppose there's a way they can get you.

Steve: Yeah, they could definitely get me and my emails probably on the website somewhere, but yeah, I mean, honestly, I could actually just email me directly, Steve@solosegment.com or they could go to the website solosegment.com. Hit me on LinkedIn or Twitter. I'm available in all the normal ways. But yeah, I'd be happy to have conversations and, you know, direct them to the right people in our organisation who can be to the conversation.

Mike: Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast, Steve. Um, there's so much more, we could ask you and find out. All I ask is if you could come back when you do have a product that works with smaller websites, I'd love to talk to you again.

Steve: You bet, Mike. Thanks very much.

Mike: Thanks so much for listening to marketing b2b tech. We hope you enjoyed the episode. And if you did, please make sure you subscribe on iTunes, or on your favourite podcast application. If you'd like to know more, please visit our website at Napier b2b dot com or contact me directly on LinkedIn.

Publishing House Fiera Milano Media Acquired by the LSWR Group

Publishing House Fiera Milano Media has been acquired by the LSWR Group, an Italian leader in scientific and professional knowledge, through the Quine publishing house. 

Providing the latest updates and news for engineers, technologists, and IT specialists, the acquisition allows Quine to expand its range of information and professional training, due to Fiera Milano Media's speciality in technical publishing, B2B communication, managerial training, and digital services. The media house's publications in Industrial Automation, Mechanical, Electronics, and ICT sectors will all move to Quine from the 1st March 2020.

The acquisition of the Fiera Milano Media magazines further extends the LSWR Group's activities led by Giorgio Albonetti, which strengthens the group's leadership position in the engineering sector. Giorgio Albonetti, President of LSWR Group commented "The pandemic crisis has accelerated the transformation and evolution of professional skills. The report, 'Future of Jobs by the World Economic Forum' at the end of 2020 reveals that 50% of all employees will need to retrain by 2025 following an increase in technologies, the economic impact of the pandemic, and the increasing in automation. These are the reasons why we believe it is essential to increase training, updating, and quality professional information right away; we believe it is essential to increase our commitment to the evolution of people's professional skills. The skills and assets acquired by Fiera Milano Media help to consolidate Quine's role as a cultural reference in the field of new technologies and technical knowledge".

Marco Zani, CEO of Quine added "Quine constantly increases its commitment to training and communication in the professional field, also qualitatively, with this new acquisition. The portals and magazines expand the already rich offer provided by Quine with products in the Tech, Construction, industrial production, Ho.Re.Ca., and information and communication technologies; the goal is to continue the work done so far by offering increasingly useful and increasingly interesting content to effectively respond to the challenges that the pandemic crisis and digital transformation impose".

Here at Napier, we are always supportive of an acquisition, and we are looking forward to seeing the direction Quine will take the Fiera Milano Media publications in.



WEKA FACHMEDIEN Offers Reader Test Seal

WEKA FACHMEDIEN is offering companies an opportunity to go beyond classic advertising, with the chance to be awarded a 'test seal'.

The company and product are presented in detail via a product presentation and 'reader test' to an interactive target group and shared across all channels, to allow qualified readers and experts to provide an independent test result. The analysis will detail the testers' initial product impressions, and the test seal is rewarded to the company which was most liked by users, as detailed in the WEKA analysis report.

The product test report can be read on the WEKA FACHMEDIEN website when completed, and will also be shared via all channels.

We wish the best of luck to everyone taking part!


Bodo's Power Systems Reveals Virtual Roundtable for March

Bodo's Power Systems has announced a virtual roundtable on wide bandgap power semiconductors which will be held on March 31st 2021.

With wide bandgap power semiconductors, silicon carbide (SiC) and gallium nitride (GaN), finding their way into more applications, Bodo's magazine will host a 'Bodo's WBG Expert Talk", a virtual roundtable with experts on this topic.

Building on articles already published by Bodo, the event will provide readers with the opportunity to ask the experts questions, either via email in advance or through chat during the live session. Confirmed speakers include experts from companies such as Microchip, Infineon, ROHM, ST Microelectronics, United SiC, Efficient Power Conversion (EPC), and GaN Systems.

At Napier, we think its great to see that there will be such an informative session on this topic, and we look forward to hearing what we are sure will be fantastic feedback from the event.


PCIM Europe 2021 Confirmed as Digital Event

PCIM Europe has been confirmed as a digital event for 2021. Having originally been postponed to the late summer, organizers have now made the decision for the event to be fully digital, due to the ongoing challenges faced by the current pandemic, with the industry reluctant to commit to an on-site event.

PCIM Europe 'digital days' will take place in an online format, across five days from the 3rd-7th May 2021, and will offer suppliers and users the opportunity to expand their knowledge on key developments, and connect with other professionals.

In addition to exhibitor profiles, the conference program will provide a mix of live and on-demand presentations, followed by discussions with the speakers.

Although this is an unsurprising move from organisers, with the future of the pandemic still unclear, it's great to see that a virtual event will go ahead, especially considering that the first PCIM Digital Days last year, was very successful.

To find out more information on the event and how you can attend, please click here.