In this podcast episode, we interview Tim Langley, CEO and Founder at CANDDi, a digital intelligence tracking platform.

Tim shares his journey to founding CANDDi, and how the platform can help B2B marketers be more proactive by gathering data which allows them to engage with leads both at the top and bottom of the sales funnel.

Listen to the podcast now via the links below:

Transcript: Interview with Tim Langley – CANDDi

Speakers: Mike Maynard, Tim Langley

Mike: Thanks for listening to marketing b2b Tech, the podcast from Napier, where you can find out what really works in b2b marketing today. Welcome to the latest episode of marketing b2b technology from Napier. Today, I’ve got Tim Langley, who’s described himself as the founder, the CEO and chief dogsbody at CANDDi. Welcome to the podcast, Tim.

Tim: Thanks, Mike. Thanks for having me.

Mike: So, Tim, I mean, I mean, the first thing is, you know, how do you get a career that lets you end up with Chief dogs by the CANDDi? Yeah. How did you get to this point?

Tim: Oh, you know, I think that’s, I think that’s a very easy question to answer. So I grew up and studied maths at university, did a year working for a for a startup, and then decided, You know what, I think it’d be fun to be running my own business. That was nearly 20 years ago. And how’d you get how’d you get a title like, Chief dog’s body? Like anything? Isn’t it? The joy of running a business is you keep every title until someone else wants it. And in 20 years, no one’s wants to take that one from me yet.

Mike: Yeah, I must admit, last week, I found out how many employees it took to change a light bulb. And the answer was only one they asked me and then I do the light bulb changing. So I totally understand.

Tim: It’s like the classic computer science joke, isn’t it? How many? How many software engineers to take change a light bulb? Not it’s a hardware problem. They don’t, they don’t they don’t get any better. I’m afraid.

Mike: I was gonna say I think you now qualify as having the best software engineer joke on the podcast. So congratulations for that. I’m, I’m interested. I mean, you mentioned having to do a lot of CANDDi but you’re actually also involved in a couple of other companies. Can you tell us a bit about that as well?

Tim: Yeah, all sorts of CANDDi now is is 13 years old. And we have we’ve always prided ourselves as kind of being like the innovators in the space so we’re 20 strong person business 50 Universal we’re developers. So very very thin on the ground for sales marketing business, very much innovation development building things.

And first business I’ve got involved first spin out business and all of them all of these are spin out businesses from CANDDi but two and a half years ago, I met a chap called Adam Herbert who was very experienced within the data industry we started a business together called go live data go is the it’s the UK is best source of b2b marketing lists marketing data we start from UK companies house and then find the online profiles and all the all the thermographic data around the around the organisation so so that’s that’s that’s go and then I also started a business called comply and comply is very similar to go but with a financial crimes lash and anti money laundering hat on so comply has been very very busy over the last four and a half months while a number of our larger customers have started to ask us Can you guarantee there’s no Russians involved in our customer base so yes, life is exciting with with those two strands but but no cat candies always been my baby so And fortunately, fortunately should be some fun things to talk about the CANDDi as well.

And everything around data which I think is really interesting

it’s all it’s all around data that’s been it’s been my passion for say for 20 odd years now has been data and then specifically people and marketing data.

Mike: Cool. So CANDDi is spelt ca n DD I guess the the most important questions is why CANDDi is it a lot of sweets?

Tim: We get all things really in fact, we have a we have a number of American customers and they struggle with the word CANDDi we often get is that see and die it’s actually got a funny little story really. So just before starting CANDDi I’ve had, as I mentioned, I’ve been been running businesses 20 years, I had a couple of businesses that went well. I had a couple of businesses that didn’t go so well.

Just before starting CANDDi, I was consulting for a actually a digital agency in Manchester as was at the time, which is a company called and digital and, and started pitching to and basically looking at the stuff they were doing and they had an awful lot of trying to pull together different data sets very manually, and so started pitching to them around. I reckon if we did a bit of less than a bit of this and a bit of this, we could build a product out of this. And they went Tim That sounds amazing. We’d love to be your first investors. I wasn’t even looking for investors but sounds amazing. They said there’s one criteria though. The company name has to include the words and digital. It’s just kind of one of the things they did.

So the real name of a company is campaign and digital intelligence limited. But that’s such a mouthful, but we then went okay, what can we really call it? But But do you know what? I love the name CANDDi, I wouldn’t change it for the world. But if I had to do it again, I wouldn’t call it CANDDi. The number of iterations of the name I own ca n C A N N ca n d i. serwotka. It’s like an SEO nightmare trying to trying to get the word. The word CANDDi.

Mike: Okay, so a memorable but rather hard to spell name? By the sounds of it. So I mean, can you tell us what problem CANDDi solves.

Tim: So the core of CANDDi, we want to be putting a name and a face against an otherwise anonymous website visitor. So when I first started, and actually when we demoed the software to people, we start with this slide that’s got this big black hole in the middle, and all kinds of different marketing channels around the edge. So be it SEO bit PPC, the email marketing vs. Social. But the fact of the matter is, there’s a billion different ways to get people to come onto your website, which is great. And within reason, they all work. And you then have traditional, I call them traditional, but traditional tools such as Google Analytics, which can give you like the aggregate numbers.

So yesterday, you had 100 visitors onto your website, 20 of them came from SEO, and 30 of them came from an email campaign you run. And you know what, that’s for a lot of art for a lot of our b2b customers. That’s not a bad kind of scenario. The problem is, and this is a bit and this is a bit misses of if you like the hypothesis statement that started the business, but the problem is, you can see what’s getting people to the website. But then the thing we hear time and time again, they land on the website, it’s like this black hole, you know, people are there. But it’s like having a shop window and just you can see people walking by. But unless you can reach out unless you can engage with them unless you ultimately unless you know who they are. It’s very, very little you can do from a sales perspective, you just have to hope and pray they fill in a form on the website.

And in many instances for b2b, especially especially growing and sales focused b2b businesses, they want to be a bit more proactive, but just wait and hope somebody comes and fills the form. And so so what we do, we integrate him with all of our digital marketing channels via SEO via email marketing, we integrate him with them, we use those to pick up signals, and then either identify the company, or potentially identify danger, the actual named individual, and be able to say, it’s not just a random visitor, this is Mike Maynard, from Napier, he’s a really high prospect.

Mike: That’s fascinating. So I mean, particularly, what you’re trying to do is catch people between arriving at the website and filling in the form, which is where a lot of people disappear. So that that makes a lot of sense.

Tim: There’s two bits really so.

So there’s one bit which is, and if you look through the whole aid or awareness, model, awareness, interest decision action, crikey, I nearly forgot it. So one piece, one piece, which is a piece you just alluded to there, Mike is the very top of the funnel, capturing people went between arriving on the website and filling the form, when they’re still in that kind of role.

Do I know who you are? Am I interested enough. And we in that gives that gives, that gives our customers that gives our people use our software, the opportunity to try and get involved with people who might otherwise disappear.

The second piece though, which is actually equally as valuable, often we’ll find that that prospects will come to the website, they’ll fill in a form to download a lead magnet or to get a piece of content, etc. But they’re not yet ready to buy. They’ve expressed interest, but they’re not ready for the decision or the action phase. And so so then what happens is they’ll then come back to a website or number and actually sorry, just to jump in, but but if if you jump down their throat too fast when they’re just at the interest phase, you ended up turning them off rather than turning them on because well I’m not I’m not ready yet. Just give me a break.

So so the second bit were canned is really useless because we’re tracking computers because we’re watching the activity that people do on the website. We can say look, this person, they filled in a form, but probably not quite ready for a really a really full on conversation. Drop them an email back, don’t bother making a phone call to them yet. What then happens is they come And back to your website a month, a week, six months, a year later, they don’t necessarily fill in a form again. But CANDDi goes, that’s interesting. I’ve seen this person, I’ve seen this computer. And so we can then give this much richer picture for the people who’ve already filled in forms and give you an indication of when the right time to engage might be. So kind of hits both sides, both the very top of the funnel, but also the people who are getting hotter starting to get closer towards being able to make that decision and take action.

Mike: That’s interesting. So that that towards the bottom of the funnel, I think you’re acting quite like a marketing automation platform might do in terms of tracking people, and understanding where they’re visiting and potentially, you know, driving actions from that. Would that be right?

Tim: Yes, so, so can the marketing automation is always been an interesting space for us. And it’s not something we have yet. I use that carefully. But it’s not something we’ve yet wandered into, we integrate with. So when we when we look at when we look at the whole space of people in a similar position to CANDDi bars, there are a number of organisations a number of competitors who do company level IP tracking, we can talk about that in the future. But that’s, that’s really about identifying the company based on the IP address that someone’s coming from.

There’s also a number of organisations which which you mentioned the HubSpot bit eloquent bit my calf, so the the full service marketing automation plays, who do everything for you. And one of the things we’ve always said they are great pieces technology, if you’re going to put everything into their stack. It’s interesting, but a number of our larger customers, one of the things they get out of CANDDi, they use marketing automation platforms, for the automation, as it says, but they they actually what you discover is they use multiple different platforms. And each platform tracks and identifies its people. But they don’t have that holistic view goes okay. And especially when people are using third parties as well. So they might use a third party to do their data send. And then they use their own platform to do their nurturing. And then the salespeople send their own emails and, and they end up with all these little pots of data. One of the pieces can do those as pull all of that together to give this slightly more holistic, almost a customer data platform or CDP. So yeah, marketing automation is a really unlock much automation has been a very interestingly growth space over the last 13 years, as a CANDDi, we’ve we’ve kind of cut this interesting place that goes on one hand, providing the providing a lightweight marketing type platform, and the other hand providing stdp and provide the actual the data the pulling it all together for for the larger organisations.

Mike: That’s interesting. I mean, the other thing as well is when I use CANDDi, and just so people know, we actually are a CANDDi customer at Napier. So we are CANDDi users. When I use it, it feels much more sales focused than any kind of marketing automation platform. I know clients when they’ve tried to get sales teams to use the marketing automation platforms. It’s it’s fraught with difficulty. It’s not what sales teams like it’s hard enough to get them to use the CRM. So I mean, is that another benefit that it’s a more sales friendly presenting activity?

Tim: You took You took the words right out of my mouth? We you’re absolutely right. Once one time we used to we used to describe it the keys in the name, isn’t it? It’s marketing automation. And with a joke, you almost don’t want your sales team to be going into it because you want them focused on what do I need to do today. And then one of the pieces we have in CANDDi is very focused lists off here are people that were on your website yesterday, here are people are taking action today. So from a sales side, it’s very great. I need to tick these boxes versus let me go and wander around and have a look at all of the all of the reasons why not to be making not not to be making sales or not to be making the contact or calls. Yes, CANDDi came from a very sales focused background rather than rather than this more generic marketing piece.

Mike: Definitely, no, I think it’s really helpful to sales teams. I want to step back, you briefly mentioned the identification of anonymous visitors. So working out which company people are from, can you explain a little bit more about what CANDDi does to work out which company people are from?

Tim: Yeah, absolutely. So let’s start by talking about how the industry does it and then then I’ll talk about some of the additional pieces which CANDDi does. So the core the core of company identification has always been IP tracking and using IP addresses. So as I’m as I’m sure majority of your listeners know, Mike, when anytime you connect to the internet, your computer gets given an IP address and that’s how Have a server knows how to communicate with your computer and your computer to communicate the server. And servers or technology like CANDDi can capture these IP addresses and go, Okay, here’s an IP address 81 point 27.1 to four point 17, etc, etc, etc.

Now every every IP address is registered to an organisation. Most IP addresses are registered to internet service providers, so Virgin Media, British Telecom, etc. But for medium and larger businesses, they generally have their own, what would be called a static IP address. So this would be an IP address registered in the name of that company. And if a visitor comes from behind that company’s IP address, you can say somebody from Napier was on your website yesterday. And that can be useful. There’s a number of problems with just relying on IP addresses. So one problem is that when when all you have is IP addresses, you’ve got no way to know whether it was one person coming 10 times, or 10 people coming once. If you if you imagine an office full of people, you also don’t know who it was that was coming from from behind the IP address. Sometimes Sometimes that can be okay. So with as an organisation, you’re very, very focused in who you who you market to who you sell to, you can go general, on balance of probability, the only person who’s going to be coming on our website is going to be the CFO, or is going to be the facilities manager, etc. But actually, it might just as well be, but it was one of them, it was one of their managers, or even it was the office intern who was tasked with doing the research.

The second the second problem, if you like with with IPS is, and again, go back to when CANDDi started 13 years ago, everybody browse the internet or predominantly browse the internet from behind their work desktop computer. These days, I don’t know about you and me but it’s the iPad, it’s the phone, it’s the coffee shop, it’s the whilst whilst commuting to and from London, etc, etc, etc. Those are the times I’m more often do my awareness interest. And in those instances, very rarely will someone show up as coming from behind a static IP address. Generally, they’ll be on a on a mobile connection or on a home broadband. So that’s the IP tracking piece. Now we do a few bits deeper than that in CANDDi. So CANDDi, CANDDi uses cookies to track rather than IPs. So we drop the first we can talk about cookies, I’m sure privacy will come up in a second, but we drop a first party cookie on the device. So that means we can track when that computer comes back to that specific website. We don’t follow you around the internet, we only track you on that single single company’s properties. But because we do this, we can pick up when a visitor comes from behind multiple IPs. So if you use the computer in work, at home, on the train, on the coffee shop, we would see that as the same computer across multiple different IP addresses. And then we can plug into other types of data to go, who’s this person likely to be?

Mike: So what you’re doing is you’re you’re almost looking to see when this cookie gets associated with the company. And then you know, that person obviously works for that company because they’re behind the firewall.

Tim: Yes, number one is we look for when that cookie gets associated with the company. And then number two, if we’re really lucky when that cookie gets associated with a named individual. So if Eva fill a form and click an email, connect through LinkedIn, in that instance, we go up. And now it’s not just about the company, it’s about the actual person after company.

Mike: Perfect. Okay, so how do people use this data? I’m interested, particularly in the anonymous data, you refer to the fact of there could be a challenge and knowing who from the company visited the site? You know, do you find people who have value, you know, suddenly seeing a particular customer increase activity? Or how else do people use this data?

Tim: So we spoke earlier about the difference between or some of the differences between sales and marketing. And we very definitely have two different types of users. So for the Sales User, even the company level data can be useful. We’ve built over over the last period of time, we’ve built a number of plugins to try to help identify otherwise anonymous people. So we have we have the ability to see who the key employees at the company are. So you see somebody from Napier communications, we go okay, that’s kind of intro and then we got kind of interesting here of a key people that work at that organisation.

So you can go we have Have a plugin for Outlook and a plug in for Gmail. So if you actually know somebody’s applicant or know people at the company, you can send them a one to one individually email. And obviously, as I’m sure you know, one to one emails have far higher open rates far higher click through far higher engagement, we have a plug in for LinkedIn so often are so often our Sales Users that they’ll go okay, somebody from this company, let’s go on to LinkedIn, let’s see who’s at that company? Who am I already connected to? Who could I connect with, make the connections? And then when people are when their connections start to engage, we can then identify them on the website. That’s kind of a sales side. With the marketing side, it’s much more around, is our message going out to the right kind of people? If we’re building a message aimed at UK businesses? Do we tend to see UK businesses coming onto the site? Or actually, is it American businesses or Canadian businesses or, or so we’ve our marketing teams, we give them that bit more of a generic, but actually drilled down to the company in the thermographic details. I don’t know you’re aiming for large businesses, but it seems most of the stuffs being read by smaller businesses, okay, maybe allows you to rethink where rethink the type of content and rethink the information you’re putting out there.

Mike: That’s really interesting. And presumably, if, if I’m running an Account Based Marketing Campaign, I can actually measure the impact on traffic from the accounts I’m targeting, in CANDDi to see to see the move.

Tim: Do you know what Account Based Marketing campaigns marketing has probably been one of the biggest buzzwords over the last few years?

Mike: It’s certainly one of our biggest certainly our fastest growing service, actually, it’s definitely working. And I think one of the things we found is, of course, when you start an Account Based Marketing Campaign, you don’t necessarily run it as a lead gen campaign. And so it’s quite hard to get those results. And certainly seeing the data in CANDDi definitely helps.

Tim: It often gives that tangible are slightly more tangible. We know we’re doing the right thing, whilst it might take a number of months to actually see the the lead numbers actually tick through. So yes,

Mike: Definitely. So I mean, Kenny is obviously pulling in a lot of data, both personal and also firmographic. You mentioned before, I mean, there’s always the GDPR question, what’s the privacy implications on what you do? What are marketers need to be aware of?

Tim: You know, what is? The $64,000 question, isn’t it about privacy these days, and it’s also changing and evolving so much both. It’s both a legal perspective, but also a technical perspective, and everything that’s going on under the covers, so, so few pieces, and let’s let’s go through and try and get some these time. But please feel free to ask about any of the any bits that go through. So piece number one, obviously, is the GDPR. Ankle, so let’s just talk about that.

So CANDDi only captures data from people coming on to our customers sites, but that’s where we build our datasets from. So we rely on the fact that our customers have a legal basis for holding that data. And CANDDi, simply a data processor of the data our customers control.

What I mean, say there’s, we don’t own any of the data from your site. It’s your data, you get to choose or you get to make requests as to what you want to do with that. Now, for most of our customers, they rely on legitimate interests as their as their legal basis. And in a b2b world, that makes a lot of sense, I would not use CANDDi, I would not use technology like CANDDi in any in any form of high risk data or very, very, very, very personal data. So if you’re doing anything with children, or if you’re doing anything with medical records, this wouldn’t be the right type of tool to be using. But if you’re a b2b business, if you’re if you’re selling to other other b2b companies, or other other b2b organisations, then the legitimate interests, the ability to say, look, we saw someone came onto our website, they are a genuine prospect for us. That’s why we’re tracking them. That’s why we’re that’s why we’re doing this. The second side, which which I touched on the beginning, is about cookies, and about first party but versus third party. So this is this is whereas GDPR was the buzzword of of 2018 2019. That buzz word of 2020 2223. Almost certainly is going to be the fact that if you read all the articles, cookies are dying, they’re going away. No one’s ever going to accept cookies anymore, etc, etc, etc. And the truth of matter is, in the same way that GDPR made us think carefully about what we were doing with marketing data. But it didn’t stop marketing. Unit didn’t destroy the industry and all of the above, the same is going to be true with with the first party versus third party cookies.

So third party cookies effectively are cookies that follow you around the internet. This is where you go and look at a dishwasher. And then you go and read a news article and it says buy this dishwasher. Now that’s driven off of third party cookie, first party cookies, or just a bite, they only collect data on that one website on that one company’s on that one company’s property. So that much more about, and we’ve said this for years, and candidates are technology. And the best way to use this technology is to help. We help companies build relationships with people and organisations who want to have relationships with them. If if you think about it from sales perspective, at the end of the day, even if I come onto your website, if I don’t want to have a relationship with your business, it’s pointless trying to force me to because nobody wins. Or what happens is you waste marketing money, you waste sales time. Whereas if it’s just that I do, but I just don’t quite know how to get started. Well, that’s a great prospect for you. I feel like I’m getting it does any of this make sense? Certainly, I can talk about privacy till the cows come home. So

Mike: I think it’s very important that the differential you made about first party and third party cookies, and that’s quite technical. But you know, it really is at the heart of the new regulations are impacting third party.

Tim: Correct. We in fact, actually going back a number of years, we coined a we coined that Scripture, we call it the pub landlord conversation, if you’ve got a couple of minutes, but so the public landlord conversation says, and by the way, candies were based in Manchester, we’re in the centre of it, we’re in fact, within the Northern Quarter, if anyone knows those Manchester well, but so for the last five years, I’ve been going on a Friday night finish work, obviously, COVID notwithstanding both, so I would go to the same pub on a Friday night with a team in CANDDi, and we’d sit down, we’d have a beer, just let off steam at the end of the for long week. And, and obviously over time, I’d start to build a relationship with the pub landlord. And, and so I’d go in there once in one day. And he goes, and it must have been a really bad week, because you could read on my face as a bad place. And he says, Timmy says some, you look like you’ve had a tough week, why don’t you sit down, there’s a pint of Guinness, he knows I drink Guinness, there’s a pint of Guinness, just it’s on the house, have a few minutes, just get get stress off. And then when you’re ready, we’ll have a proper conversation. And I went, you know what, that’s really, really good. But the landlord recognised who I was he new or like drinking Guinness, he saw us in a bad mood. That’s a great relationship, and the fact that I want to have a relationship with him. So I go, brilliant, that’s great customer service. That’s a good analogy, if you like have a first party tracking, where we want to have a relationship.

Now the counter to that is maybe I jump on a train to London and I walk into work into a bar in the middle of Shoreditch. And the landlord goes, You’re Tim Langley, I’ve seen you on the internet. I’m going to run a mile party. Obviously, everybody has their own definitions of what they feel comfortable sharing and what they view as, as personal and private. And except for but that to me is the distinction between the two, I get to choose and I get to I get to choose who I want to have a relationship with. And on the assumption they want to have a relationship with me. We have a beautiful, beautiful situation. The one where they pull together data, but I’m not necessarily aware of. That’s uncomfortable. That’s not something that’s not something that’s good for me as an individual. It’s not something that’s good for a business either.

Mike: I love that explanation. That’s That’s fantastic, really clear differentiation there. And absolutely, I think everyone would run a mile to finally have a stalker, it’s, it’s scary.

Tim: It’s a very English analogy, though it doesn’t translate so well across the pond.

Mike: So, I mean, I’m mindful of the time here. I mean, just looking at installing can do it. Obviously, there’s quite a lot is it does that mean it’s complicated to instal and manage?

Tim: It’s super well. It’s super simple to instal and manage. It’s literally put one line of code on your website, we take care of everything else, where, where it can be more complex, maybe complex as the wrong word. But where it can be more more challenging is sometimes it involves sales teams and sales people starting to change their behaviours and think a bit more about how they actually want to engage and how they actually have a go about contacting for days. I think it’s fair to say the days of cold calling, picking up the phone and just go Hey Mike, you want to speak You now are probably passed, it’s definitely a much more subtle approach. And so we, when we start working with clients, we have a very strong customer success team. And they work very closely with people trialling CANDDi, and very closely with our customers to help them think about how to best use this within their business. So technically, it’s simple, but, but sometimes, sometimes we dive a lot deeper with customers to really help them get the best out of it.

Mike: That’s really interesting.

Tim: So I mean, presumably people, they look at the data, and they might go back and see if somebody already care about somebody or you know, suddenly, it’s an instant, this is perfect, I can understand, oh, when they look at these products, I didn’t know this customer is interested these products, that that must be a great feeling. But sometimes it requires a bit more time and effort to dig deep to find that the information that matters.

And sometimes it requires a bit of, as you said, then a bit more lateral thinking. So we’ve had times we’ve had times when we’ve had people say, Well, I know these people already, why do I need to know they’re on our website. And actually, they’ll then spread it out to the wider team. And maybe it’s the account manager who goes, you might already know those people, Mr. salesperson, but my goodness, I really want to know, another one. Another one we find is sometimes we’ll see people go. And they’ll see customers looking at their terms and conditions or their contract terms. And you go, Whoa, that’s a red flag, you might want to know about that. If your best customer is looking at terms and conditions, that’s a good indication, it might be time to start touching base and say, Hi, how are you again? So yes, that’s kind of the wider picture thinking. But when people are thinking very linearly, sometimes they don’t always doesn’t always jump out as immediate benefits.

Mike: No, absolutely. I mean, we have, you know, in marketing, running a marketing agency, if people look at the client’s page, or they look at the People page, or they look at both, it’s a real indication that they’re interested. So I totally understand that.

Tim: Exactly. Yeah. So if somebody wanted to try CANDDi, I mean, it’s a line of code on the website. That sounds simple.

Mike: But is it easy to get a trial? How do you how do you, you know, let people test the product?

Tim: Yeah, so we, as with many SAS businesses, we are a free trial first business Or just go to WWE did we And there’s plenty of ways to to register from there. When we work with people, we do a 30 day free trial to get started. And during that free trial, our customer success team are regularly reaching out touching base, just trying to make sure that we can give you the best possible experience of software to hand. So very, very, very simple, very, very easy to get started. We We love having new people on board.

Mike: Brilliant, so So just go to CANDDi ca n, or one of the other versions you’ve got. And and try it out. That’s a great message. I mean, it’s been really great talking to you, if people are, are interested in finding out more or maybe have a question, is there a way they can get ahold of you on the internet?

Tim: There’s 100 ways to get ahold of me on the internet. But so or reach out to me, Tim Langley on LinkedIn. I, in fact, it is it’s the joy of growing, building a growing businesses is there are more and more people in the team to work to take over stuff. But actually, I really enjoy when people reach out and ask me questions. And it’s sometimes it’s just really nice to actually touch base and understand the kinds of things people are actually interested in asking about. So we’re more than happy to answer any questions.

Mike: Perfect. And I mean, that’s brilliant. You know, if people are interested in a software product, they’ve got the email address to the CEO. That’s, that’s a pretty compelling.

Tim: I told you, we were kind of different in that space, but

Mike: awesome. Well, I really appreciate this. It’s been such a good conversation not just about CANDDi, but about cookies, about privacy, about all sorts of things. Thank you so much for being on the podcast him.

Tim: Thanks very much for having me, Mike.

Mike: Thanks very much. Thanks so much for listening to marketing b2b Tech. We hope you enjoyed the episode. And if you did, please make sure you subscribe on iTunes, or on your favourite podcast application. If you’d like to know more, please visit our website at Napier b2b dot com or contact me directly on LinkedIn.